1. Donationrwingett
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    24 Jan '08 00:161 edit
    Some interesting things in the Qur'an. We atheists are all doomed, that pretty much goes without saying:

    [2:7] GOD seals their minds (the disbelievers) and their hearing, and their eyes are veiled. They have incurred severe retribution.

    But it appears to be quite magnanimous to the other two Abrahamic religions:

    [2:62] Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

    That seems to be a bit more broadminded than requiring everyone to accept Jesus as their personal savior. But how do we know this is really true? Why the Qur'an tells us so, of course:

    [2:2] This scripture is infallible; a beacon for the righteous;
  2. Joined
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    24 Jan '08 00:432 edits
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Some interesting things in the Qur'an. We atheists are all doomed, that pretty much goes without saying:

    [2:7] GOD seals their minds (the disbelievers) and their hearing, and their eyes are veiled. They have incurred severe retribution.

    But it appears to be quite magnanimous to the other two Abrahamic religions:

    [2:62] Surely, those who b ls us so, of course:

    [i][2:2] This scripture is infallible; a beacon for the righteous;
    But notice that in the Qu'ran one is required to live a righteous life and to do good "works" in order to get to heaven.

    The Bible tells us we can do nothing to gain admittance into heaven.
    Jesus did the work. We simply believe and trust in what Christ did on our behalf, and eternal life is given to us as a free gift of God's grace.
  3. Standard memberscottishinnz
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    24 Jan '08 00:58
    Originally posted by josephw
    But notice that in the Qu'ran one is required to live a righteous life and to do good "works" in order to get to heaven.

    The Bible tells us we can do nothing to gain admittance into heaven.
    Jesus did the work. We simply believe and trust in what Christ did on our behalf, and eternal life is given to us as a free gift of God's grace.
    So you're lazy too, huh?

    Does any of what you said have any bearing whatsoever towards which one is right and which one is wrong?
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    24 Jan '08 01:07
    Yeah, from the outside looking in a religion that requires you to do good works here on earth to get into God's graces seems a lot more socially responsible than one that just tells you to get down on your knees and kiss the ring, so to speak.
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    24 Jan '08 01:42
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Some interesting things in the Qur'an. We atheists are all doomed, that pretty much goes without saying:

    [2:7] GOD seals their minds (the disbelievers) and their hearing, and their eyes are veiled. They have incurred severe retribution.

    But it appears to be quite magnanimous to the other two Abrahamic religions:

    [2:62] Surely, those who b ...[text shortened]... ls us so, of course:

    [i][2:2] This scripture is infallible; a beacon for the righteous;
    idk what the point is, a lot of religions doom atheists. who cares?
  6. Donationrwingett
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    24 Jan '08 01:51
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    idk what the point is, a lot of religions doom atheists. who cares?
    The point, of course, is that your religion is stupid.

    That wasn't actually my point. My point is that Islam seems to have much looser restrictions as to who gets into heaven. A Jew or a Muslim could never make it into a 'christian' heaven. But the Muslims, being the nice guys that they are, just invite every old monotheist into theirs. So by that criteria, their religion is less stupid than your's.
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    24 Jan '08 02:02
    Originally posted by rwingett
    The point, of course, is that your religion is stupid.

    That wasn't actually my point. My point is that Islam seems to have much looser restrictions as to who gets into heaven. A Jew or a Muslim could never make it into a 'christian' heaven. But the Muslims, being the nice guys that they are, just invite every old monotheist into theirs. So by that criteria, their religion is less stupid than your's.
    i dont believe in any religion, i can see how you get that idea since my posts are in a theists point of view. it is because i am skeptical, and i just want to see how the most popular beliefs hold up. i once cared about religion and was a religious person out of fear, recently i have said "who cares about an afterlife even if it is real" and the fear doesnt control any part of my life at all anymore.
  8. Donationrwingett
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    24 Jan '08 02:041 edit
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    i dont believe in any religion, i can see how you get that idea since my posts are in a theists point of view. it is because i am skeptical, and i just want to see how the most popular beliefs hold up. i once cared about religion and was a religious person out of fear, recently i have said "who cares about an afterlife even if it is real" and the fear doesnt control any part of my life at all anymore.
    Sorry, I got you confused with someone else.

    The point is not about atheists. If you look at the title of the thread you'll see it is about the Jews and Christians being admitted into the Muslim heaven.
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    24 Jan '08 02:051 edit
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Sorry, I got you confused with someone else.
    i used to be a christian, out of fear... now i am an agnostic out of pride 🙂
  10. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    24 Jan '08 05:27
    Originally posted by rwingett
    The point, of course, is that your religion is stupid.

    That wasn't actually my point. My point is that Islam seems to have much looser restrictions as to who gets into heaven. A Jew or a Muslim could never make it into a 'christian' heaven. But the Muslims, being the nice guys that they are, just invite every old monotheist into theirs. So by that criteria, their religion is less stupid than your's.
    I think the Catholics are fairly liberal about who gets into Heaven.
  11. Illinois
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    24 Jan '08 05:541 edit
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Some interesting things in the Qur'an. We atheists are all doomed, that pretty much goes without saying:

    [2:7] GOD seals their minds (the disbelievers) and their hearing, and their eyes are veiled. They have incurred severe retribution.

    But it appears to be quite magnanimous to the other two Abrahamic religions:

    [2:62] Surely, those who b ls us so, of course:

    [2:2] This scripture is infallible; a beacon for the righteous;
    If the veracity of a religion is based upon how large its tent is, then I'm sure there are far more truthful religions than Islam. Baha'i, for example. I'm sure there are folks who really do judge a religion based on these merits, too.
  12. Cape Town
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    24 Jan '08 06:55
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    i used to be a christian, out of fear... now i am an agnostic out of pride 🙂
    Actually you can only be agnostic out of ignorance. (By definition).
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    24 Jan '08 06:59
    Originally posted by rwingett
    But the Muslims, being the nice guys that they are, just invite every old monotheist into theirs.
    Not any old ones. Only those that believe in the Abrahamic god. Surely the word 'God' in the text does not include just any old belief? After all if it is flexible then it might include:
    1. a god who is a member of a larger group of gods.
    2. a non-supernatural god.
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    24 Jan '08 07:38
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Actually you can only be agnostic out of ignorance. (By definition).
    everyone is ignorant in one way or another since nobody here is all knowing. you may know the big bang to be fact, thats great, but you dont know that a god could have set it into motion.
  15. Cape Town
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    24 Jan '08 08:58
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    everyone is ignorant in one way or another since nobody here is all knowing. you may know the big bang to be fact, thats great, but you dont know that a god could have set it into motion.
    But I think I know enough to be fairly sure that he didn't. Hence I claim some knowledge on the matter. You however claim to be ignorant of the matter (ie agnostic). However, do not take it as an insult as it was not intended to be. I was merely pointing out that you cannot be agnostic out of pride or out of anything other than ignorance because agnosticism is not something you choose to be but a statement of ignorance.
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