1. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
    A Spirited Misfit
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    13 Mar '16 19:26
    For a while back there, I believed in the existence of God. This belief was based on 'actual proof' that he existed, for every night when i got up to answer the call of nature, God kindly turned the light on for me. This act of kindness not only proved his existence, but also his all-loving nature.

    I then of course discovered I had been peeing in the refrigerator.

    😞

    What tangible proof can you offer that God exists? (Yes, i know faith shouldn't require such proof).
  2. Cape Town
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    13 Mar '16 21:22
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    I then of course discovered I had been peeing in the refrigerator.
    How long did it take for you to realise this? And seriously, what was the point of God turning the light on if you still peed with your eyes closed?
  3. Germany
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    13 Mar '16 21:23
    The stuff for which we have tangible proof is called "science."
  4. Standard memberKellyJay
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    14 Mar '16 04:35
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    For a while back there, I believed in the existence of God. This belief was based on 'actual proof' that he existed, for every night when i got up to answer the call of nature, God kindly turned the light on for me. This act of kindness not only proved his existence, but also his all-loving nature.

    I then of course discovered I had been peeing in ...[text shortened]... tangible proof can you offer that God exists? (Yes, i know faith shouldn't require such proof).
    God put together the universe for a setting for life, think about largeness and smallness of
    all that had to come together. All the laws of the universe had to be fine tuned to do this,
    if not no life, all the right material had to be in the right place this sweet spot where life
    is or no life, all the right material in just the right amounts, all joined at just the right way, all
    in place that could support life over time.

    So life and the setting it is in is much more functionally complex than all of our devices
    from watches to computers and so on. It is the whole of the universe *all of it* that
    screams God is real to me. My personal experiences though real to me could be thought
    of as made up by anyone I share them with. So for proving God is real, I have to leave
    that up to God to do for those that actually honestly seek Him. I believe since He is a God
    of truth only someone who are really seeking Him and not playing games will find Him,
    and since He said that those that do will find Him I'm content in that.
  5. Joined
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    14 Mar '16 04:381 edit
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    The stuff for which we have tangible proof is called "science."
    Yes and that sort of proof would only prove an entity exists that we have to learn how to deal with, sort of like Judaism,
  6. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    14 Mar '16 04:59
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    For a while back there, I believed in the existence of God. This belief was based on 'actual proof' that he existed, for every night when i got up to answer the call of nature, God kindly turned the light on for me. This act of kindness not only proved his existence, but also his all-loving nature.

    I then of course discovered I had been peeing in ...[text shortened]... tangible proof can you offer that God exists? (Yes, i know faith shouldn't require such proof).
    There is no tangible proof.
    We should be asking for circumstantial evidence at best.
    Objective circumstantial evidence.
  7. Cape Town
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    14 Mar '16 09:15
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    So life and the setting it is in is much more functionally complex than all of our devices
    from watches to computers and so on. It is the whole of the universe *all of it* that
    screams God is real to me.
    And it screams "you need a better education" to me.
  8. Joined
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    14 Mar '16 09:30
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    For a while back there, I believed in the existence of God. This belief was based on 'actual proof' that he existed, for every night when i got up to answer the call of nature, God kindly turned the light on for me. This act of kindness not only proved his existence, but also his all-loving nature.

    I then of course discovered I had been peeing in ...[text shortened]... tangible proof can you offer that God exists? (Yes, i know faith shouldn't require such proof).
    When I was little me and my nine siblings were raised by our single mother. We were so poor mother painted clothes on us because we couldnt afford to buy them and food was a luxury at the end of the week (we licked coal on week days)...that all changed one night.

    One night (and every night afterwards)when the children were tucked up in bed, there was a knock on the door. A few minutes later we could hear Mummy shouting 'Oh God' and jumping up and down excitedly on her bed, the next morning we always found a large amount of cash on the kitchen table.

    Our luck had changed, God had shown our dear mother mercy and visited her sometimes seven or eight times a night and out mother was such a devoted christian her excitement never waned. God bless you God!!
  9. SubscriberSuzianne
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    14 Mar '16 11:26
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    For a while back there, I believed in the existence of God. This belief was based on 'actual proof' that he existed, for every night when i got up to answer the call of nature, God kindly turned the light on for me. This act of kindness not only proved his existence, but also his all-loving nature.

    I then of course discovered I had been peeing in ...[text shortened]... tangible proof can you offer that God exists? (Yes, i know faith shouldn't require such proof).
    I cannot offer tangible proof that God exists.

    This is because proof of His existence would violate our free will choice to believe in Him or not. If His existence were proven, then we could not choose to not believe it, just as we cannot choose to believe that the Earth is flat, unless, of course, we are either stupid or just stubborn. And so our free will choice is maintained by not having proof.

    Those who DID receive proof of His existence have always been those who have already made the choice to believe. Thus, it follows that the important part of this is our CHOICE to either believe in Him, or not, and our free will to make this choice must not be infringed by anything, including proof. Those who want proof, want the responsibility for the choice to be taken from them, and this just ain't happenin'.
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    14 Mar '16 11:47
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    I cannot offer tangible proof that God exists.

    This is because proof of His existence would violate our free will choice to believe in Him or not. If His existence were proven, then we could not choose to not believe it, just as we cannot choose to believe that the Earth is flat, unless, of course, we are either stupid or just stubborn. And so our free ...[text shortened]... of, want the responsibility for the choice to be taken from them, and this just ain't happenin'.
    what are you defining as proof? if god speaks to a person, appears to a person or sends an angel to a person is that considered proof ?(to the witness )
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    14 Mar '16 12:151 edit
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    I cannot offer tangible proof that God exists.

    This is because proof of His existence would violate our free will choice to believe in Him or not. If His existence were proven, then we could not choose to not believe it, just as we cannot choose to believe that the Earth is flat, unless, of course, we are either stupid or just stubborn. And so our free ...[text shortened]... of, want the responsibility for the choice to be taken from them, and this just ain't happenin'.
    Can you explain why choosing to believe in the absence of evidence/proof is a good thing? What is good about it?

    How would Christianity, in any substantive way, be diminished or materially changed if God did provide this proof?
  12. SubscriberFMF
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    14 Mar '16 12:35
    Bingo.
  13. Cape Town
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    14 Mar '16 12:43
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    When I was little me and my nine siblings were raised by our single mother.
    Was her failure to use birth control also a result of her faith in God?
  14. Cape Town
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    14 Mar '16 12:461 edit
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    This is because proof of His existence would violate our free will choice to believe in Him or not. If His existence were proven, then we could not choose to not believe it, just as we cannot choose to believe that the Earth is flat, unless, of course, we are either stupid or just stubborn. And so our free will choice is maintained by not having proof.
    ...[text shortened]... of, want the responsibility for the choice to be taken from them, and this just ain't happenin'.
    You have consistently repeated those claims for years on this forum without ever giving an explanation as to why God wants you to make a 'free will' decision to believe in him despite the lack of solid evidence. Why is the CHOICE so important?

    Edit: I see other posters have asked the same thing.
  15. Standard memberKellyJay
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    14 Mar '16 14:232 edits
    Originally posted by Rank outsider
    Can you explain why choosing to believe in the absence of evidence/proof is a good thing? What is good about it?

    How would Christianity, in any substantive way, be diminished or materially changed if God did provide this proof?
    It is our faith that God desires for his reasons. Why that is what God's desires, I can only
    guess that in this life if we live it through faith here in the midst of a sinful world we would
    do well in a sinless one later. The life here is temporary while the next one isn't, so given
    the chance would you take advantage, steal, lie, with hold good to whom it is due? Will
    you hold yourself to the same standard you hold others, will you give the same amount of
    slack for those you agree with to those you don't? It is all on us to live our lives as we see
    fit and that can be done through faith acting on what we believe or acting on what we
    want and see in the here and now. We can justify all of our actions here, but with God He
    becomes our plumb line of right and wrong not just our own wills and tastes, or what we
    think we can get away with, or justify for ourselves now when earlier we condemn another
    for the same thing.



    Romans 1:17
    For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”

    Romans 3:26
    It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

    Romans 4:20
    No unbelief made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God,

    Galatians 3:11
    Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”

    Ephesians 3:12
    in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through our faith in him.

    1 Timothy 3:9
    They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience.

    2 Timothy 4:7
    I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
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