thanking god

Originally posted by whodey
So SwissGambit votes that man should not have had the ability to sin with swift intervention from God to stop them.

Anyone else?

I never said that! I demand a recount. 😛

Originally posted by SwissGambit
I never said that! I demand a recount. 😛

I will let you think it but not let you do it.

No recount!!! Just as you would have God govern us.

Originally posted by whodey
I will let you think it but not let you do it.

No recount!!! Just as you would have God govern us.

Here's a thought. [I know you hate it when I do that.] There is zero chance that I would ever commit murder. Does this mean I lack free will?

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Let's play devil's advocate.

Very funny.

That's what everyone is doing in this thread.

Taking an action which, by its very nature is humbling, and turning it into some sort of narcissistic self promotion is ridiculous. This is the very nature of Satan. Turning an honest thanking of a person's chosen deity and twisting it to represent a celebration of self is offensive and absurd.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Sorry, but I just don't buy this argument. If I stop a rape from happening, I have not deprived the rapist of his free will in any way. I have simply stopped him from being successful in the execution of what he wills.

You said "in most cases it is not for God to intervene." That's pretty audacious. Can you explain when it is justified for God to inte ...[text shortened]... ents. God exempts himself from his own rules, so obviously he cannot sin, by definition.

Sorry, but I just don't buy this argument. If I stop a rape from happening, I have not deprived the rapist of his free will in any way. I have simply stopped him from being successful in the execution of what he wills.

And yet, say you stop a rape with lethal force. With no proof of a rape, would the authorities necessarily buy your story of preventing this man from raping someone? Might they not charge you with murder? Even if lethal force was not involved, couldn't the man claim you assaulted him for no reason, since there is no proof of a rape?

You said "in most cases it is not for God to intervene." That's pretty audacious. Can you explain when it is justified for God to intervene and when it is not? Where do you draw the line?

I draw the line at the will of God. This is why I said "in most cases". It's just that "the will of God" is also not for me to decide.

I don't agree that all choices are equally important.

That's okay, you're free to disagree. You have Free Will too. What I meant was that all choices which impact our souls have equal importance. Choosing what to eat for lunch one day doesn't exactly impact my soul, unless it happens to be "braised human" or something.

"God cannot choose to sin" is tautological. Sin is a breaking of God's commandments. God exempts himself from his own rules, so obviously he cannot sin, by definition.

Okay, you got me here. 🙂

Originally posted by stellspalfie
why do people thank god for their success? isnt it egotistical to think you have been singled out for special treatment? ive been told on this forum that we are being punished for the sins of adam and we have been separated from god, this ive been told is why bad things happen to humans. so why would a christian think they are favored by god? having jus ...[text shortened]... i wonder if god were real would he really be bothered who wins the golf or football tournament?

All of life is a gift and everything in it. Why wouldn't you thank God? As far as good
or bad things happening to you, they happen to all! When the sun shines it does it
on the good people and the bad, when it rains it does so on the good people and
the bad.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
All of life is a gift and everything in it. Why wouldn't you thank God? As far as good
or bad things happening to you, they happen to all! When the sun shines it does it
on the good people and the bad, when it rains it does so on the good people and
the bad.
Kelly

thanking god for things he has bestowed upon everybody is one thing. thanking god for something that effected you in a good way but has effected somebody else in a bad way is suggesting that you have received preferential treatment from god. which to me seems like a bad thing from the person thanking god.

for me personally (if god exists) i wouldnt thank him for the good things, its like thanking an abusive father for hitting your brother instead of you.

also life is a gift only for those who have a nice time, its not much of a gift for babies who die of cot death, starvation, hiv, meningitis, sexual abuse, starvation or violence to name a few.

gods got a pretty good deal with some of you christians. he's given credit for all things good and never takes the blame for any of the bad. if bubba watson wins the golf, its 'yay way to go god, thanks for helping me win the golf' if bubba watson kills the spectators with an uzi, suddenly its 'oh well, humans have free will, its not gods fault'. mmmmmnnnn i smell a rat.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Very funny.

That's what everyone is doing in this thread.

Taking an action which, by its very nature is humbling, and turning it into some sort of narcissistic self promotion is ridiculous. This is the very nature of Satan. Turning an honest thanking of a person's chosen deity and twisting it to represent a celebration of self is offensive and absurd.

Let's see what Jesus thought about all this public praying and acts of righteousness.

Matt 6:1 “Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

2 “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Prayer
5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

That's exactly what Jesus is talking about. You are right. Guys like Tebow are taking an action that ought to be humble [and private] and turning it into narcissistic self-promotion. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
thanking god for things he has bestowed upon everybody is one thing. thanking god for something that effected you in a good way but has effected somebody else in a bad way is suggesting that you have received preferential treatment from god. which to me seems like a bad thing from the person thanking god.

for me personally (if god exists) i wouldnt t ...[text shortened]... suddenly its 'oh well, humans have free will, its not gods fault'. mmmmmnnnn i smell a rat.

I already said good and bad things happen to everyone, so where did you get that
I said that someone who has gotten good things is somehow preferred over
someone else? You do not know God likes you or hates you due to what is going
on in your life! All you can know if you belong to God is that He will not leave or
forsake you and no matter what happens to you in this life He will remain faithful
to you.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I already said good and bad things happen to everyone, so where did you get that
I said that someone who has gotten good things is somehow preferred over
someone else? You do not know God likes you or hates you due to what is going
on in your life! All you can know if you belong to God is that He will not leave or
forsake you and no matter what happens to you in this life He will remain faithful
to you.
Kelly

yes good and bad happen to everybody, but to hugely different degrees. the child born in africa who dies 2 days later, their good thing was a few days of love from their mother. a child born, who lives until 90 and has an amazing life has 10,000+ good things happen in their life. can you really reduce that down to such a simplistic view of 'well we all have good and bad things' i think thats insulting to people who have terrible lives.

ill give you another hypothetical example, im in a car crash with my family. they all die, im okay - not a scratch on me. do i thank god for saving me?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
yes good and bad happen to everybody, but to hugely different degrees. the child born in africa who dies 2 days later, their good thing was a few days of love from their mother. a child born, who lives until 90 and has an amazing life has 10,000+ good things happen in their life. can you really reduce that down to such a simplistic view of 'well we all ...[text shortened]... ash with my family. they all die, im okay - not a scratch on me. do i thank god for saving me?

Do you have a point?
You do not know what God does and why! Lives that are shorten if that is all that
there is to life means a life not long lived filled with pain and suffering, if there is
more to life than what we have here, you've not seen what is coming to make any
type of judment on what is really going on. For all you know the wealth and long
life some have is only giving them a chance to get it right, and if those that have
such lives blow it, than those with short pain filled lifes could be the really blessed
ones.
Kelly

Originally posted by Suzianne

Sorry, but I just don't buy this argument. If I stop a rape from happening, I have not deprived the rapist of his free will in any way. I have simply stopped him from being successful in the execution of what he wills.

And yet, say you stop a rape with lethal force. With no proof of a rape, would the authorities necessarily buy your story of ...[text shortened]... , so obviously he cannot sin, by definition.[/quote]Okay, you got me here. 🙂

All I need to prove is that I reasonably believed that a man was trying to rape a woman. I would think the signs are obvious. He could be doing any number of things that would indicate his intention - treating her violently, ripping her clothes off, forcing her into certain sexual positions, verbally expressing his intentions ["shut up - you're gonna enjoy this" or some similar], whipping his schlong out, etc. Sorry to be graphic, but I'm just saying, this isn't a hard self-defense claim to prove. I'm sure the woman would corroborate my story. I'd doubt I'd be charged with murder if I killed him and I'd happily put my word and the victim's word against his in a court of law if he survived.

You cannot really say "in most cases it is not for God to intervene" if he is only constrained by his own will. There is no way to show how often he intervenes in human affairs, since he could intervene in many ways without anyone being aware of it.

I am trying to gain clarity on your position on the impact of our choices. I think 'choices which impact our souls' is pretty vague still. Does this extend to any moral choice we make? Is the petty theft of a candy bar from a gas station a choice which impacts my soul?

"braised human" - haha, very funny. 🙂

Originally posted by KellyJay
Do you have a point?
You do not know what God does and why! Lives that are shorten if that is all that
there is to life means a life not long lived filled with pain and suffering, if there is
more to life than what we have here, you've not seen what is coming to make any
type of judment on what is really going on. For all you know the wealth and long
l ...[text shortened]... ives blow it, than those with short pain filled lifes could be the really blessed
ones.
Kelly

im pretty sure ive stated my point.

so you are saying a baby who dies after 3 days should thank god because they were probably going to have an even worse life. if god is willing to intervene and take this baby away from such horrors then why did he impart the soul in the first place or even better why didnt he change the babies fate so it had a good life. why would that baby be rescued from a bad life when the baby down the road survives and goes on to have a horrible life. it makes no sense, all this 'god has a plan' business is a cop-out. you have to apply morals to every situation, somebody can not be above morals just because it works out well in the end.
my auntie lost a baby, he was born with his stomach inside out and he couldnt eat or drink, he was kept alive for a week before god decided he had suffered enough, i wonder what kind of life god was saving him from and why he waited so long. all part of the 'big picture' i guess you would say.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
im pretty sure ive stated my point.

so you are saying a baby who dies after 3 days should thank god because they were probably going to have an even worse life. if god is willing to intervene and take this baby away from such horrors then why did he impart the soul in the first place or even better why didnt he change the babies fate so it had a good ing him from and why he waited so long. all part of the 'big picture' i guess you would say.

I've lost a baby 13 days past her first Birthday, you don't have to tell me about
losing kids. I'm still telling you good and bad happen to all, what you want to do
is case blame it seems on how unfair this seems to you. The trouble with your
examples is that people can stop those early deaths it isn't like the world hasn't
been given enough of everything to do that, BUT WE DO NOT. So if you want to blame
someone I suggest you blame those who can act and don't, or when they act
instead of fixing issues they make things worse. God has blessed us with a lot,
what we do with it all is on us.
Kelly