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    11 Feb '14 14:576 edits
    There are three references in scripture to the Alpha and the Omega

    (Revelation 1:8) “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty*.”

    *“The Almighty.” Greek, ho Pantokrator; Latin, Omnipotens, Hebrew 'El Shaddai, “God Almighty”

    Clearly the reference here is to the father, Jehovah God, Christ never referred to himself as Almighty God and no one ever addressed him as Almighty God. There is a prophetic reference in Isaiah to a mighty god, but its a different word entirely and simply means a powerful spiritual entity.

    (Revelation 21:5-7) And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also, he says: “Write, because these words are faithful and true.” And he said to me: “They have come to pass! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To anyone thirsting I will give from the fountain of the water of life free. Anyone conquering will inherit these things, and I shall be his God and he will be my son.

    Again clearly this is a reference to the father, why? because the claim is that he will become the God of those who conquer. Did Jesus Christ speak of having a God? Yes he did,

    (John 20:17) Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father. But be on your way to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”

    The last instance we come to,

    (Revelation 22:12, 13) “‘Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.

    Since there is nothing in the context to ascertain who specifically is speaking we must for consistency's sake as in the previous two instances attribute this as a reference to God the father, The Almighty, this view would be consistent with the rest of the book of revelation.
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    11 Feb '14 15:152 edits
    There are of course some attempts by trinitarians to attribute this title to Jesus but they cannot withstand scrutiny, for example,

    (Revelation 1:17, 18) And he laid his right hand upon me and said: “Do not be fearful. I am the First* and the Last, and the living one; and I became dead, but, look! I am living forever and ever,

    *First from the Greek, protos, as first in time, firstborn, the same root as the first-born of all creation (colossians 1:15)

    Thus we can see that this cannot be a reference to the Almighty as he had no beginning and no end and was not born.
  3. SubscriberSuzianne
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    11 Feb '14 15:36
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    There are three references in scripture to the Alpha and the Omega

    (Revelation 1:8) “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty*.”

    *“The Almighty.” Greek, ho Pantokrator; Latin, Omnipotens, Hebrew 'El Shaddai, “God Almighty”

    Clearly the reference here is to the father, Jehovah ...[text shortened]... the father, The Almighty, this view would be consistent with the rest of the book of revelation.
    I hope you come to the truth sometime before you shuffle off this mortal coil.

    If not, it's not going to be pretty.
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    11 Feb '14 15:37
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    There are three references in scripture to the Alpha and the Omega

    (Revelation 1:8) “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty*.”

    *“The Almighty.” Greek, ho Pantokrator; Latin, Omnipotens, Hebrew 'El Shaddai, “God Almighty”

    Clearly the reference here is to the father, Jehovah ...[text shortened]... the father, The Almighty, this view would be consistent with the rest of the book of revelation.
    if jesus was god then who was he praying to?
  5. SubscriberSuzianne
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    11 Feb '14 15:401 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    There are of course some attempts by trinitarians to attribute this title to Jesus but they cannot withstand scrutiny, for example,

    (Revelation 1:17, 18) And he laid his right hand upon me and said: “Do not be fearful. I am the First* and the Last, and the living one; and I became dead, but, look! I am living forever and ever,

    *First from the ...[text shortened]... t this cannot be a reference to the Almighty as he had no beginning and no end and was not born.
    You really are a piece of work, robbie.

    First, you say that "I am the Alpha and the Omega" CLEARLY refers to God the Father, and then you say that "I am the First and the Last" CANNOT refer to the Father.

    If you had a brain, you'd realize the two phrases are identical.

    I simply cannot believe you are making this argument to prove your point. You can't get any more ridiculous.
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    11 Feb '14 15:411 edit
    there may be attempts to interpolate verses with religious bias and unadulterated dogma, for example, the reference to the Alpha and the Omega as the first and the last as quoted by RJ Hinds at revelation 1:10-12 which are missing from the better translations,

    first RJ Hinds doctored version,

    I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”

    Revelation 1:10-11 NKJV

    notice the interpolation of the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last,

    lets look at some other translations of the same verses,

    On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, which said: “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.”

    I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands,

    NIV version

    also

    I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet saying, What thou seest, write in a book and send it to the seven churches: unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamum, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

    And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And having turned I saw seven golden candlesticks

    American standard version
    (Revelation 1:10, 11) By inspiration I came to be in the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a strong voice like that of a trumpet, saying: “What you see write in a scroll and send it to the seven congregations, in Epesus and in Smyrna and in Pergamum and in Thyatira and in Sardis and in Philadelphia and in Laodicea.”

    New world translation

    Now ask yourself dear reader, why does R J Hinds translation state the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last whereas all other translations omit those verses? The answer, they have been inserted by dishonest and unscrupulous translators who rather than being motivated by truth, have bowed to religious bias and dogma, but that's a trinitarian for you.
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    11 Feb '14 15:41
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    I hope you come to the truth sometime before you shuffle off this mortal coil.

    If not, it's not going to be pretty.
    In what way is it "not going to be pretty"?
  8. SubscriberSuzianne
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    11 Feb '14 15:44
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    there may be attempts to interpolate verses with religious bias and unadulterated dogma, for example, the reference to the Alpha and the Omega as the first and the last as quoted by RJ Hinds at revelation 1:10-12 which are missing from the better translations,

    first RJ Hinds doctored version,

    I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard ...[text shortened]... ng motivated by truth, have bowed to religious bias and dogma, but that's a trinitarian for you.
    I think you'd better ask why YOUR version omits it.
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    11 Feb '14 15:44
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    You really are a piece of work, robbie.

    First, you say that "I am the Alpha and the Omega" CLEARLY refers to God the Father, and then you say that "I am the First and the Last" CANNOT refer to the Father.

    If you had a brain, you'd realize the two phrases are identical.
    I have demonstrated why its not the same thing, you may make reference to that, there is only three instances of the Alpha and the Omega in scripture, the first and the last is an entirely different phrase.

    Your personal attack is of course a reflection of the weakness of your argument, you think you would have realised that by now.
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    11 Feb '14 15:45
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    I think you'd better ask why YOUR version omits it.
    All version omit it, i produced three, the New International, the American standard and the New world translation, so no, you will have top explain why its in yours and not these others, as if we didn't know.
  11. SubscriberSuzianne
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    11 Feb '14 15:46
    Originally posted by Great King Rat
    In what way is it "not going to be pretty"?
    Go on, now, the adults are talking.

    In other words, if you don't know what I'm saying here, then I'm not talking to you.
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    11 Feb '14 15:471 edit
    Originally posted by Great King Rat
    In what way is it "not going to be pretty"?
    She forgets I've seen Johnny rotten in concert and he played Pretty vacant! so woosyanne, im out to lunch! and pretty vacant!
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    11 Feb '14 15:481 edit
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Go on, now, the adults are talking.

    In other words, if you don't know what I'm saying here, then I'm not talking to you.
    I will hear your confessions now my daughter, why did you do it, why did you interpolate the alpha and the omega, the first and the last in revelation 1:10-12?
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    11 Feb '14 15:50
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Go on, now, the adults are talking.

    In other words, if you don't know what I'm saying here, then I'm not talking to you.
    In what way is it "not going to be pretty", Suzianne?
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    11 Feb '14 15:541 edit
    Originally posted by tim88
    if jesus was god then who was he praying to?
    an excellent question, glad you asked, indeed, who was he praying to, himself? I highly doubt it, better ask a trinitarian but be prepared for skulduggery, interpolation of verses, underhanded tactics, dodgy translation, sleaze ball tactics and all kinds of trickery.
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