1. Joined
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    16 Jun '05 10:31
    As a born-and-raised Christian, I find myself straying due to 2 reasons...

    1) The ever-present talk of money in our churches.
    IF God is all powerful, why does he require that people give him money? Besides the point that he says to tithe.

    2) The forcing of religion and damning of other people.
    Street evangelists, who bother neighborhood kids after we say no thanks, we don't want to hear it.
  2. Standard memberThe Plumber
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    16 Jun '05 12:24
    Originally posted by Alpha10
    As a born-and-raised Christian, I find myself straying due to 2 reasons...

    1) The ever-present talk of money in our churches.
    IF God is all powerful, why does he require that people give him money? Besides the point that he says to tithe.

    You're right, God doesn't need your money. Why then the Biblical emphasis on money? A few verses, if I may:

    Matthew 6:21 - For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
    Matthew 6:24 - No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.

    God's interest in "our" money is in helping us to understand that how we use our money is a reflection of where our heart is. If you want to know what's important to someone look at their checkbook.

    As an aside, money is discussed in one form or another in the Bible more than any other single topic, excepting God. It shouldn't be surprising then that it gets discussed fairly frequently on Sunday morning.

    If you're really interested in a very good discussion of the subject, there is a very small, but excellent book called The Treasure Principle by Randy Alcorn (it's about a 30-minute read, but well worth it).

    2) The forcing of religion and damning of other people. Street evangelists, who bother neighborhood kids after we say no thanks, we don't want to hear it.


    There are lots of people who do lots of bad things in the name of God. You shouldn't confuse those folks with God.
  3. Joined
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    16 Jun '05 12:43
    Originally posted by Alpha10
    As a born-and-raised Christian, I find myself straying due to 2 reasons...

    1) The ever-present talk of money in our churches.
    IF God is all powerful, why does he require that people give him money? Besides the point that he says to tithe.

    2) The forcing of religion and damning of other people.
    Street evangelists, who bother neighborhood kids after we say no thanks, we don't want to hear it.
    I been to a couple churches where all they ever is your money, which I dont think is right, but some churches will teach not to put money in front of God, in which I agree, as plumber said, there are allot of people who will do things in Gods name,

    Also, there are no "Born-and-raised" christians, IMO. Ones not a christian untill being Born again, but I realize that could be just a term

    Stay on the Rock my friend
  4. Standard memberRBHILL
    Acts 13:48
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    16 Jun '05 16:13
    Originally posted by Alpha10
    As a born-and-raised Christian, I find myself straying due to 2 reasons...

    1) The ever-present talk of money in our churches.
    IF God is all powerful, why does he require that people give him money? Besides the point that he says to tithe.

    2) The forcing of religion and damning of other people.
    Street evangelists, who bother neighborhood kids after we say no thanks, we don't want to hear it.
    The money can go for missions trips. And that will help people to fly to like Africa to witness to the lost.
  5. Standard memberRBHILL
    Acts 13:48
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    16 Jun '05 16:15
    Originally posted by flyUnity
    I been to a couple churches where all they ever is your money, which I dont think is right, but some churches will teach not to put money in front of God, in which I agree, as plumber said, there are allot of people who will do things in Gods name,

    Also, there are no "Born-and-raised" christians, IMO. Ones not a christian untill being Born again, but I realize that could be just a term

    Stay on the Rock my friend
    Took the words out of my mouth, that you are not a Christian till you are born again. Just like no one is born a muslim.
  6. London
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    16 Jun '05 16:171 edit
    Originally posted by Alpha10
    As a born-and-raised Christian, I find myself straying due to 2 reasons...

    1) The ever-present talk of money in our churches.
    IF God is all powerful, why does he require that people give him money? Besides the point that he says to ...[text shortened]... ighborhood kids after we say no thanks, we don't want to hear it.
    I find it quite odd that you stray from Christianity not because of the intrinsic merits/flaws of Christianity itself, but because of the way other Christians may or may not behave.

    It's like losing faith in in a democratic system of Govt. because GWB was elected President.
  7. Standard membertelerion
    True X X Xian
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    16 Jun '05 16:34
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    I find it quite odd that you stray from Christianity not because of the intrinsic merits/flaws of Christianity itself, but because of the way other Christians may or may not behave.

    It's like losing faith in in a democratic system of Govt. because GWB was elected President.
    True, but events like this can rattle one's idyllic impression of their religion (or democracy). It's not a grounds for absolute rejection, but it can bring the issue down to a level where one is willing to examine their religion (democracy) a bit more critically. Whether they reject, embrace, or modify their beliefs this almost always a good thing.
  8. SubscriberBigDoggProblem
    The Advanced Mind
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    16 Jun '05 16:53
    Originally posted by Alpha10
    As a born-and-raised Christian, I find myself straying due to 2 reasons...

    1) The ever-present talk of money in our churches.
    IF God is all powerful, why does he require that people give him money? Besides the point that he says to tithe.

    2) The forcing of religion and damning of other people.
    Street evangelists, who bother neighborhood kids after we say no thanks, we don't want to hear it.
    "God" doesn't need your money, but the pastor does.

    The pastor has a vested interest to remind people to tithe. Modern pastors work for money just like those in any profession.

    Pastors love to build new, bigger buildings as a monument to their church's 'growth'. This also requires large amounts of $$.

    In America, $$ is the state religion. It has defeated christianity handily.
  9. Joined
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    20 Jun '05 11:31
    I worded this wrong. Born and raised around Christianity.....
  10. Joined
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    20 Jun '05 14:34
    True Christianity no longer exists, if it ever did. Looking back on it's history, Christianity has been the source of most of the suppression of free thought and free expression of thought over the past two millenia. It also has been the "reason" for the slaughter and disfigurement of more people than communism, fascism, and islam combined. Jesus never meant for His followers to "conquer" other faiths, just to preach the word of His Father. He was a Man of peace and tolerence. Tolerence of other faiths and walks of life are no longer part of the Christian faith.
    I was raised in the Penticostal Protestent form of Christianity (Assembly of God), and I found as I grew older that most of my friends and aquaintances were looked down upon by my church. I was told constantly to "save" them, when they were quite content and happy in their own faith, and told that if they were not Christian that I could not associate with them. I saw the suppression of other faiths, science, medicine, and philosophy (which continues unto today, i.e. Bush refusing stem cell researchers to expand their life-saving research) and the suppression of art and other forms of self-expression. Christianity has it's fingers in politics, nation-building, and world governments. I left the faith because I could not stomach their acts any longer.
    I am open and accepting of all peoples and all faiths. I do not judge people, for I am only a mortal person, who is not perfect and therefore cannot judge who is "good" and who is "evil." I can however condemn institutions whose on-going track records are stacking evil act upon evil act. If you tell me you are Christian, I accept you and will not try to convince you away from your faith. If you try to judge me and "save" me based on MY beliefs, then I will give you my judgement of your religion in full force.

    Sorry for the diatribe, but I just dealt with a pushy christian recently who yelled out as I walked away that I was the "devil's minion...."
  11. Standard memberKellyJay
    Walk your Faith
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    20 Jun '05 17:421 edit
    Originally posted by Alpha10
    As a born-and-raised Christian, I find myself straying due to 2 reasons...

    1) The ever-present talk of money in our churches.
    IF God is all powerful, why does he require that people give him money? Besides the point that he says to ...[text shortened]... ighborhood kids after we say no thanks, we don't want to hear it.
    What does 'born-and-raised Christian' mean? I didn't become a
    Christian until I was 25, I understand people growing up in a
    church, but I was always under the impression to be a Christian
    you personally had to make a choice for Jesus Christ. Which is
    not the same thing as being raised in a church where you are
    surrounded by people who may or may not be Christian all your
    life.
    As far as money is concern. Money is required to run fellowships to
    pay for buildings and their up keep. You need money for several
    things; however, if money is the only thing your fellowship is
    concern about, find another fellowship. It is without a doubt not
    the main concern in most churchs as you seem to say. If you do
    not understand 'tithe' I doubt you were raised in a church as you
    claim.
    If you don't understand evangelists I again doubt you were raised
    in a church, if you were and you don't have a clue about both the
    'tithe' and 'evangelist' I think you were raised in the most sick out
    of wack church fellowship I have ever heard of. If someone can
    grow up in a church and not grasp what those two things are and
    mean I think you were in a social club, not a church that really had
    anything that had to do with God or Christ.
    Kelly
  12. Meddling with things
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    20 Jun '05 23:37
    Originally posted by The Plumber
    Originally posted by Alpha10
    [b]
    There are lots of people who do lots of bad things in the name of God. You shouldn't confuse those folks with God.
    By their fruit shall ye know them.

    organised religion pawns these people, they are the fruit of god and his tribe of self appointed god-botherers. You can't disown then quite so glibly thankyou
  13. Meddling with things
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    20 Jun '05 23:41
    Originally posted by RBHILL
    The money can go for missions trips. And that will help people to fly to like Africa to witness to the lost.
    What a waste. Why send missionaries to africa went you could sent experts to give training in the skills africa needs. Yeah, the missionaries can witness the lost as they starve to death. A child dies of curable diseases every minute and the best you can think of is to send missionaries.

    Your wealth (in the USA) is built on a mountain of children's corpses.
  14. Meddling with things
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    20 Jun '05 23:41
    Originally posted by RBHILL
    Took the words out of my mouth, that you are not a Christian till you are born again. Just like no one is born a muslim.
    But some people are just born rednecks
  15. Joined
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    21 Jun '05 00:16
    Concerning tithing.... Jesus was met on the street by a man who wanted to know if he should have to pay taxes to the evil Romans. Jesus asked to see a coin and the man obliged. Jesus asked whose portrait was on the coin, and the man answered that it was Ceasar. Jesus replied that he should "render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's, render unto God what is God's."

    I have always looked at this as a two-fold answer:

    1. The literal meaning: that money is a creation of man and therefore only of concern for worldly issues. Pay your taxes, because it is the government who is allowing you to earn money. A classic separation of the world and religion. Religion should not concern itself with earning an accumulation of wealth as it is a worldly thing (a point reinforced by Jesus' attacking the merchants in the temple). Tithing is simply an institutional issue and therefore should be considered seperate from religion. In otherwords, you should not "go to hell" if you fail to tithe.

    2. The figurative meaning: Jesus was very good at saying things in way that promoted deeper understanding of the world in relation to our religious beliefs. He stated on numerous occasions that the world is a transitory thing, and has little meaning in the universe. In this case he was clearly inferring that governments and how the world was run should be of little concern to religion, since it's purpose is to develop the inner being. As such, religion should not deal with governments and vice-versa. A teaching that has long since been ignored by Christians, especially here in the US, where you see the "moral majority" and the Christian Right forcing their beliefs and rules onto all the people.
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