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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    03 Jul '18 15:08 / 2 edits
    Here it is in one sentence:

    The only One who can keep the commandments of Jesus is Jesus. [From Sonship]


    Why is it a flaw
    1. It was never stated by anyone in the Bible, Not Jesus and not the Apostles
    2. It is contrary to the teachings of Christ and the Apostles
    3. It is in fact an insult to Jesus Christ.

    It leads to a dangerous complacency and fatalistic hopeless attitude.

    Its like a business man going on vacation and leaves instructions for the workers to follow. The workers look at these instructions and conclude that only their boss is capable of following his instructions. These workers will be fired.

    Jesus had a couple parables along these lines, and the conclusion :

    And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 25:30 KJV)
  2. 03 Jul '18 15:18
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    Here it is in one sentence:

    The only One who can keep the commandments of Jesus is Jesus. [From Sonship]


    Why is it a flaw
    1. It was never stated by anyone in the Bible, Not Jesus and not the Apostles
    2. It is contrary to the teachings of Christ and the Apostles
    3. It is in fact an insult to Jesus Christ.

    It leads to a dangerous ...[text shortened]... t into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 25:30 KJV)[/quote]
    I was not aware that some churches do not agree with you.
  3. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    03 Jul '18 21:33 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    Here it is in one sentence:
    The only One who can keep the commandments of Jesus is Jesus. [From Sonship]

    Why is it a flaw
    1. It was never stated by anyone in the Bible, Not Jesus and not the Apostles


    The statement is about HOW deeply the believer must depend upon the Spirit of Christ. And it is echoed many places, For example:

    " I am the vine and you are the branches. He who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit,

    for apart from Me you can do nothing." (John 15:5)


    Apart from the Christian abiding in Christ and Christ abiding in him, What can he accomplish for God ?

    "Nothing"

    Once again Paul desired not to be found in his own righteousness which is by the law, but that which is through Christ by faith in Christ.

    "And be found in Him, not having my own righteousness which is out of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness w hich is out of God and based on faith." (Phil. 3:9)


    Paul sought for the subjective experience of righteous living which is out of God and based on faith in Christ. He had no confidence in his own religious self-righteousness out of law keeping devoid of faith.

    Paul pioneered in righteous living. Yet it was Christ that lived out in him.

    " I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me;

    and the life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

    I do not nullify he grace of God; (Gal. 2:20,21a)


    Paul unleashes the grace of God. Paul does not "nullify" the grace of God rendering it inoperative or ineffective. Rather he utilizes to the maximum the grace of God - Jesus Christ LIVING in him.


    2. It is contrary to the teachings of Christ and the Apostles


    No it is not. It is according to what Jesus said about His resurrection. Because He lives, His disciples into whom He comes will live also.

    " Yet a little while and the world beholds Me no longer, but you behold Me;

    because I live, you also shall live." (John 14:19)


    These simple words should not be taken for granted. We believers will live righteously because Christ is resurrected and can live in us. Because He lives we also will live.

    The very next verse 20 shows God and man mingled and united together in mutual indwelling.

    "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you." ( v.20)



    3. It is in fact an insult to Jesus Christ.


    It is a glory to Christ. That Christ in resurrection became a divine life imparting Spirit that we could live in union with the Victor, the Overcomer, Christ the God-man.

    In fact Jesus said that the glory which God had given to Him He in turn gives to His redeemed people in whom He will live.

    "And the glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, even as We are one.

    I in them, and You in Me, that they may be perfected into one, that the world may know that You have setnt Me and have loved them even as You have loved Me." (John 17:23,24)


    A keyword here is PERFECTED which means a process. At the climax of this PERFECTING Christ's glory will be the glory of the saints.

    Our destiny as believers in Christ:
    " To Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus unto all the generations forever and ever. Amen." (Eph. 3:21)



    It leads to a dangerous complacency and fatalistic hopeless attitude.


    It normally should lead to JOY and DEPENDENCE of Christ as the One Who is everything that we need.

    The righteous requirement of the law is fulfilled in those who set the mind on the spirit where the Spirit of Christ is. The righteous requirement of the law is fulfilled in those who WALK by the Spirit living in their regenerated spirit.

    "That which the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending His own Son in the likeness of the flesh of sin and concerning sin, condemned sin in the flesh,

    That the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the spirit." (Rom. 8:3,4)


    That means to WALK step by step minding the Holy Spirit Who has become "one spirit" with the spirit of the born again believer.

    "He who is joined to the Lord is one [MINGLED] spirit." (1 Cor. 6:17)


    Rajk999 does not know the New Testament or the New Testament salvation.

    So Paul the pioneer in living by Christ had NO CONFIDENCE in his religious zeal. All his confidence was in the "life giving Spirit" - the Holy Spirit - that is Jesus Christ in His indwelling and "pneumatic" form.

    "For we are the circumcision, the ones who serve by the Spirit of God and boast in Christ Jesus and have no confidence in the flesh." (Phil. 3:3)


    Who did Paul boast in ? - Not in himself but in Christ Jesus as he lived and served by the Holy Spirit of God.
  4. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    03 Jul '18 23:56 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Rajk999 does not know the New Testament or the New Testament salvation.
    Waffle and more waffle. Paul said even though you are one with Christ.,even though you have the Holy Spirit. You still have to live righteously and do good works, keep away from sin otherwise there is no inheritance in the kingdom of God

    Keep the commandments otherwise there is NO ETERNAL LIFE.

    So waffle along. Mr Waffler and continue to discourage people from following Christ.

    Good Christians listen to Christ and follow the commandments.
    Foolish Christians follow that nonsense your church promotes.
  5. 04 Jul '18 00:54
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    Here it is in one sentence:

    The only One who can keep the commandments of Jesus is Jesus. [From Sonship]


    Why is it a flaw
    1. It was never stated by anyone in the Bible, Not Jesus and not the Apostles
    2. It is contrary to the teachings of Christ and the Apostles
    3. It is in fact an insult to Jesus Christ.

    It leads to a dangerous ...[text shortened]... t into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 25:30 KJV)[/quote]
    Jesus gave us the Lord's Prayer. In it, we are asking for forgiveness of sins, present sins, fresh sins.

    Did He not put this into the prayer because He knew we would, in our flesh, continue to sin?

    Yes He did.
  6. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    04 Jul '18 01:12
    Originally posted by @chaney3
    Jesus gave us the Lord's Prayer. In it, we are asking for forgiveness of sins, present sins, fresh sins.

    Did He not put this into the prayer because He knew we would, in our flesh, continue to sin?

    Yes He did.
    I realise that you have now gone off on a tangent searching for support that all your sins are forgiven. So I hope you find it.
  7. 04 Jul '18 01:20
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    I realise that you have now gone off on a tangent searching for support that all your sins are forgiven. So I hope you find it.
    Not true.

    I'm just pointing out that Jesus instructed us to 'ask' for forgiveness of sins.

    Not just once and done, but continually.

    Why? Because we sin, even after making a decision to follow Jesus.
  8. 04 Jul '18 01:50 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @chaney3
    Jesus gave us the Lord's Prayer. In it, we are asking for forgiveness of sins, present sins, fresh sins.

    Did He not put this into the prayer because He knew we would, in our flesh, continue to sin?

    Yes He did.
    Does your Bible read like this?

    Luke 11
    4‘And forgive us our [present sins, fresh sins because in your flesh, you continue to sin],
    For we ourselves also forgive everyone who is indebted to us.
    And lead us not into temptation.’”

    That's an interesting translation. Which one is it?
  9. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    04 Jul '18 01:51 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    [
    I gave you many references. It is noted that you haven't the skill to refute them one by one.

    Do you think other posters won't notice your lack of substantial counter explanations ?

    John 15:4,5 - No counter argument or refuting interpretation.

    Phil. 3:9 - No counter argument or refuting interpretation.

    Gal. 20:20,21a - Nothing, no better interpretation.

    John 14:19 - Nothing, no rebutting analysis.

    John 14:20 - No better interpretation as a counterpoint.

    John 17:23,24 - Still no refutation, no better interpretation.

    Eph. 3:21 - No better interpretation as a counterpoint.

    Rom. 8:3,4 - Nothing, no better insight.

    First Cor. 6:17 - Again, NO rebuttal.

    Phil. 3:3 - No competency to counter argue that either.


    It looks like your talents are reduced to only copying another poster to utilize the word - "waffle".

    Calling "Waffle, Waffle, Waffle" That's ALL the defense you have for your feeble heresies.

    Pardon me if I am not particularly impressed ?
  10. 04 Jul '18 02:10
    Originally posted by @thinkofone
    Does your Bible read like this?

    Luke 11
    4‘And forgive us our [present sins, fresh sins because in your flesh, you continue to sin],
    For we ourselves also forgive everyone who is indebted to us.
    And lead us not into temptation.’”

    That's an interesting translation. Which one is it?
    Surely Jesus did not intend for us to ask God the Father to forgive us our sins just 'once', and then live sin free.
  11. 04 Jul '18 02:35 / 5 edits
    Originally posted by @chaney3
    Surely Jesus did not intend for us to ask God the Father to forgive us our sins just 'once', and then live sin free.
    I didn't think you had a translation. All you have is flimsy speculation. It's remarkable how so many think nothing of putting words in Jesus' mouth.

    The fact is that the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry doesn't support the idea that "The only One who can keep the commandments of Jesus is Jesus".

    If you disagree, then make your best case using His gospel.
  12. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    04 Jul '18 02:38
    Originally posted by @chaney3
    Not true.

    I'm just pointing out that Jesus instructed us to 'ask' for forgiveness of sins.

    Not just once and done, but continually.

    Why? Because we sin, even after making a decision to follow Jesus.
    Did Jesus at anytime state that your asking for forgiveness of sins means that you are sure to be forgiven?
  13. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    04 Jul '18 02:45
    Originally posted by @sonship
    I gave you many references. It is noted that you haven't the skill to refute them one by one.

    Do you think other posters won't notice your lack of substantial counter explanations ?

    [b] John 15:4,5
    - No counter argument or refuting interpretation.

    Phil. 3:9 - No counter argument or refuting interpre ...[text shortened]... se you have for your feeble heresies.

    Pardon me if I am not particularly impressed ?[/b]
    Do I need to refute a bunch of irrelevant references?

    Jesus said If you want eternal life keep the commandments.

    You say only Jesus can keep the commandments.

    What is the point of your references?
  14. 04 Jul '18 02:50
    Originally posted by @thinkofone
    I didn't think you had a translation. All you have is flimsy speculation. It's remarkable how so many think nothing of putting words in Jesus' mouth.

    The fact is that the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry doesn't support the idea that "The only One who can keep the commandments of Jesus is Jesus".

    If you disagree, then make your best case using His gospel.
    I am not putting words into Jesus' mouth.

    HE gave us the Lord's Prayer.
  15. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    04 Jul '18 02:59
    Originally posted by @thinkofone
    I didn't think you had a translation. All you have is flimsy speculation. It's remarkable how so many think nothing of putting words in Jesus' mouth.

    The fact is that the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry doesn't support the idea that "The only One who can keep the commandments of Jesus is Jesus".

    If you disagree, then make your best case using His gospel.
    Sonship again is in direct opposition to Jesus and he continues to argue against keeping the commandments of Christ and living righteously