1. Joined
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    22 Feb '06 20:47
    I think the best evidence of the existance of God is the change in people's lives when they accept Jesus.
    Being a Christian, I've heard many many such stories. I heard another today. A hit man for the mafia (Skeeter) spoke with a gal at a rally and learned that God is willing to forgive him his sins. With some prayer, he was convinced that God had forgiven him. That very day went to tell the boss he was out. The mafia dragged him feet first behind a tractor, face down, and then face up, and left him for dead. In the hospital a friend of the gal he spoke with went to see him (she was out of town). He said, "Tell that gal, I'm forgiven." He died the next day.
    The stories like this (abrupt turnarounds) are not uncommon in Christian circles. What else could cause a man to do what Skeeter (and many others) did if not the love he felt from his creator.

    DF
  2. Subscriberno1marauder
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    22 Feb '06 20:48
    Originally posted by DragonFriend
    I think the best evidence of the existance of God is the change in people's lives when they accept Jesus.
    Being a Christian, I've heard many many such stories. I heard another today. A hit man for the mafia (Skeeter) spoke with a gal at a rally and learned that God is willing to forgive him his sins. With some prayer, he was convinced that God had forg ...[text shortened]... an to do what Skeeter (and many others) did if not the love he felt from his creator.

    DF
    Suicidal stupidity?
  3. Standard memberKnightWulfe
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    22 Feb '06 20:50
    Originally posted by DragonFriend
    I think the best evidence of the existance of God is the change in people's lives when they accept Jesus.
    Being a Christian, I've heard many many such stories. I heard another today. A hit man for the mafia (Skeeter) spoke with a gal at a rally and learned that God is willing to forgive him his sins. With some prayer, he was convinced that God had forg ...[text shortened]... an to do what Skeeter (and many others) did if not the love he felt from his creator.

    DF
    Convincing one's self in the belief of such things.

    Does not matter what is truly out there. If you convince yourself that you can see something that is not truly there, then to you mind, heart and soul, it is there.

    Whether God exists or not has nothing to do with it.
  4. Joined
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    22 Feb '06 21:44
    Originally posted by KnightWulfe
    Convincing one's self in the belief of such things.

    Does not matter what is truly out there. If you convince yourself that you can see something that is not truly there, then to you mind, heart and soul, it is there.

    Whether God exists or not has nothing to do with it.
    For one occurance, or two, I would agree. But having this many turn their lives in completely opposite directions, all for the same reported reason, there's got to be more there than simple self delusion.

    DF
  5. Subscriberno1marauder
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    22 Feb '06 21:50
    Originally posted by DragonFriend
    For one occurance, or two, I would agree. But having this many turn their lives in completely opposite directions, all for the same reported reason, there's got to be more there than simple self delusion.

    DF
    Afraid not.
  6. Standard memberroyalchicken
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    22 Feb '06 21:59
    Originally posted by DragonFriend
    I think the best evidence of the existance of God is the change in people's lives when they accept Jesus.
    Being a Christian, I've heard many many such stories. I heard another today. A hit man for the mafia (Skeeter) spoke with a gal at a rally and learned that God is willing to forgive him his sins. With some prayer, he was convinced that God had forg ...[text shortened]... an to do what Skeeter (and many others) did if not the love he felt from his creator.

    DF
    I'm confused. Is this skeeter of RHPWP? She's a Jesus freak? What?
  7. Subscriberwidget
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    22 Feb '06 22:21
    Originally posted by royalchicken
    I'm confused. Is this skeeter of RHPWP? She's a Jesus freak? What?
    Skeeter and the Monkey Man were hard up for cash... 😕
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    22 Feb '06 22:30
    Originally posted by DragonFriend
    For one occurance, or two, I would agree. But having this many turn their lives in completely opposite directions, all for the same reported reason, there's got to be more there than simple self delusion.

    DF
    DF I completely agree. Having seen so many pious christians completely turn around to become good atheists has convinced me that they are not deluded. Having said that, I am a pious christian.
  9. Joined
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    22 Feb '06 22:51
    Originally posted by royalchicken
    I'm confused. Is this skeeter of RHPWP? She's a Jesus freak? What?
    Nope. Different Skeeter.

    DF
  10. Joined
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    22 Feb '06 22:56
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Suicidal stupidity?
    Really?
    Think about it. The man was a professional killer. I'm sure he could come up with a way of killing himself that was much less painful than allowing himself to be dragged to death.
    What could change such a cold-hearted man as a professional killer into someone who's willing to be killed in such an awful way? I'd like to hear some serious thoughts on this.

    DF
  11. Subscriberno1marauder
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    22 Feb '06 23:181 edit
    Originally posted by DragonFriend
    Really?
    Think about it. The man was a professional killer. I'm sure he could come up with a way of killing himself that was much less painful than allowing himself to be dragged to death.
    What could change such a cold-hearted man as a professional killer into someone who's willing to be killed in such an awful way? I'd like to hear some serious thoughts on this.

    DF
    My answer stands; people do incredibly stupid things all the time. What could cause a man to stick a knife in a toaster to get out a piece of bread and be electrocuted? Stupidity. What could cause a man to drink a quart of Wild Turkey and then drive his Pinto at 80 mph down Main Street USA? Stupidity.

    The only difference being that you find the stupid thing your imaginary playmate did to be somehow morally correct. Perhaps it was, but he was still an imaginary idiot.
  12. Joined
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    22 Feb '06 23:411 edit
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    My answer stands; people do incredibly stupid things all the time. What could cause a man to stick a knife in a toaster to get out a piece of bread and be electrocuted? Stupidity. What could cause a man to drink a quart of Wild Turkey and then drive his Pinto at 80 mph down Main Street USA? Stupidity.

    The only difference being that you find the ...[text shortened]... playmate did to be somehow morally correct. Perhaps it was, but he was still an imaginary idiot.
    The mafia isn't a group to be played with. And one doesn't become a mafia hit man by being stupid. Not would one survive in that profession for long if he were stupid.
    If believe your conclusion is highly unlikely simply based on the requirements of the organization he was dealing with and the job he held with them.
    Yours is too easy an answer.

    DF
  13. Standard memberscottishinnz
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    22 Feb '06 23:42
    Originally posted by DragonFriend
    For one occurance, or two, I would agree. But having this many turn their lives in completely opposite directions, all for the same reported reason, there's got to be more there than simple self delusion.

    DF
    Nearly 7 billion people on the planet. Bound to be a few which turn their lives around, and those stories are, of course, going to be recounted. What about all the millions which DON'T turn their lives around? Those stories are never told, because there is no dramatic reversal of fortunes, no glamour and no vested interest to promote. You still have not provided one single real story of this happenning, only hypothetical ones about car lifting grannies and mobsters finding god. Of course, it's us athiests fault for requiring you to provide any proof for what you say....
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    22 Feb '06 23:48
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    Nearly 7 billion people on the planet. Bound to be a few which turn their lives around, and those stories are, of course, going to be recounted. What about all the millions which DON'T turn their lives around? Those stories are never told, because there is no dramatic reversal of fortunes, no glamour and no vested interest to promote. You still have ...[text shortened]... Of course, it's us athiests fault for requiring you to provide any proof for what you say....
    If you want proof, read the books written by those whose lives have been turned around. Read Lee Strobel or Josh McDowell, or ... there's a long list.
    Do the research, my friend, that you are so fond of. Find out for yourself, because you simply won't take anybody else's word for it.

    DF
  15. Subscriberno1marauder
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    22 Feb '06 23:52
    Originally posted by DragonFriend
    The mafia isn't a group to be played with. And one doesn't become a mafia hit man by being stupid. Not would one survive in that profession for long if he were stupid.
    If believe your conclusion is highly unlikely simply based on the requirements of the organization he was dealing with and the job he held with them.
    Yours is too easy an answer.

    DF
    You're obviously right; I believe Murder, Inc. required a post-graduate degree for their hired guns. And I read in Cosa Nostra Weekly, that there are more mafia goons in Mensa than there are Philosophy professors. So I must retract my statement.
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