22 Feb 06
I think the best evidence of the existance of God is the change in people's lives when they accept Jesus.
Being a Christian, I've heard many many such stories. I heard another today. A hit man for the mafia (Skeeter) spoke with a gal at a rally and learned that God is willing to forgive him his sins. With some prayer, he was convinced that God had forgiven him. That very day went to tell the boss he was out. The mafia dragged him feet first behind a tractor, face down, and then face up, and left him for dead. In the hospital a friend of the gal he spoke with went to see him (she was out of town). He said, "Tell that gal, I'm forgiven." He died the next day.
The stories like this (abrupt turnarounds) are not uncommon in Christian circles. What else could cause a man to do what Skeeter (and many others) did if not the love he felt from his creator.
DF
22 Feb 06
Originally posted by DragonFriendSuicidal stupidity?
I think the best evidence of the existance of God is the change in people's lives when they accept Jesus.
Being a Christian, I've heard many many such stories. I heard another today. A hit man for the mafia (Skeeter) spoke with a gal at a rally and learned that God is willing to forgive him his sins. With some prayer, he was convinced that God had forg ...[text shortened]... an to do what Skeeter (and many others) did if not the love he felt from his creator.
DF
22 Feb 06
Originally posted by DragonFriendConvincing one's self in the belief of such things.
I think the best evidence of the existance of God is the change in people's lives when they accept Jesus.
Being a Christian, I've heard many many such stories. I heard another today. A hit man for the mafia (Skeeter) spoke with a gal at a rally and learned that God is willing to forgive him his sins. With some prayer, he was convinced that God had forg ...[text shortened]... an to do what Skeeter (and many others) did if not the love he felt from his creator.
DF
Does not matter what is truly out there. If you convince yourself that you can see something that is not truly there, then to you mind, heart and soul, it is there.
Whether God exists or not has nothing to do with it.
22 Feb 06
Originally posted by KnightWulfeFor one occurance, or two, I would agree. But having this many turn their lives in completely opposite directions, all for the same reported reason, there's got to be more there than simple self delusion.
Convincing one's self in the belief of such things.
Does not matter what is truly out there. If you convince yourself that you can see something that is not truly there, then to you mind, heart and soul, it is there.
Whether God exists or not has nothing to do with it.
DF
22 Feb 06
Originally posted by DragonFriendI'm confused. Is this skeeter of RHPWP? She's a Jesus freak? What?
I think the best evidence of the existance of God is the change in people's lives when they accept Jesus.
Being a Christian, I've heard many many such stories. I heard another today. A hit man for the mafia (Skeeter) spoke with a gal at a rally and learned that God is willing to forgive him his sins. With some prayer, he was convinced that God had forg ...[text shortened]... an to do what Skeeter (and many others) did if not the love he felt from his creator.
DF
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22 Feb 06
Originally posted by DragonFriendDF I completely agree. Having seen so many pious christians completely turn around to become good atheists has convinced me that they are not deluded. Having said that, I am a pious christian.
For one occurance, or two, I would agree. But having this many turn their lives in completely opposite directions, all for the same reported reason, there's got to be more there than simple self delusion.
DF
22 Feb 06
Originally posted by no1marauderReally?
Suicidal stupidity?
Think about it. The man was a professional killer. I'm sure he could come up with a way of killing himself that was much less painful than allowing himself to be dragged to death.
What could change such a cold-hearted man as a professional killer into someone who's willing to be killed in such an awful way? I'd like to hear some serious thoughts on this.
DF
22 Feb 06
1 edit
Originally posted by DragonFriendMy answer stands; people do incredibly stupid things all the time. What could cause a man to stick a knife in a toaster to get out a piece of bread and be electrocuted? Stupidity. What could cause a man to drink a quart of Wild Turkey and then drive his Pinto at 80 mph down Main Street USA? Stupidity.
Really?
Think about it. The man was a professional killer. I'm sure he could come up with a way of killing himself that was much less painful than allowing himself to be dragged to death.
What could change such a cold-hearted man as a professional killer into someone who's willing to be killed in such an awful way? I'd like to hear some serious thoughts on this.
DF
The only difference being that you find the stupid thing your imaginary playmate did to be somehow morally correct. Perhaps it was, but he was still an imaginary idiot.
22 Feb 06
1 edit
Originally posted by no1marauderThe mafia isn't a group to be played with. And one doesn't become a mafia hit man by being stupid. Not would one survive in that profession for long if he were stupid.
My answer stands; people do incredibly stupid things all the time. What could cause a man to stick a knife in a toaster to get out a piece of bread and be electrocuted? Stupidity. What could cause a man to drink a quart of Wild Turkey and then drive his Pinto at 80 mph down Main Street USA? Stupidity.
The only difference being that you find the ...[text shortened]... playmate did to be somehow morally correct. Perhaps it was, but he was still an imaginary idiot.
If believe your conclusion is highly unlikely simply based on the requirements of the organization he was dealing with and the job he held with them.
Yours is too easy an answer.
DF
22 Feb 06
Originally posted by DragonFriendNearly 7 billion people on the planet. Bound to be a few which turn their lives around, and those stories are, of course, going to be recounted. What about all the millions which DON'T turn their lives around? Those stories are never told, because there is no dramatic reversal of fortunes, no glamour and no vested interest to promote. You still have not provided one single real story of this happenning, only hypothetical ones about car lifting grannies and mobsters finding god. Of course, it's us athiests fault for requiring you to provide any proof for what you say....
For one occurance, or two, I would agree. But having this many turn their lives in completely opposite directions, all for the same reported reason, there's got to be more there than simple self delusion.
DF
22 Feb 06
Originally posted by scottishinnzIf you want proof, read the books written by those whose lives have been turned around. Read Lee Strobel or Josh McDowell, or ... there's a long list.
Nearly 7 billion people on the planet. Bound to be a few which turn their lives around, and those stories are, of course, going to be recounted. What about all the millions which DON'T turn their lives around? Those stories are never told, because there is no dramatic reversal of fortunes, no glamour and no vested interest to promote. You still have ...[text shortened]... Of course, it's us athiests fault for requiring you to provide any proof for what you say....
Do the research, my friend, that you are so fond of. Find out for yourself, because you simply won't take anybody else's word for it.
DF
22 Feb 06
Originally posted by DragonFriendYou're obviously right; I believe Murder, Inc. required a post-graduate degree for their hired guns. And I read in Cosa Nostra Weekly, that there are more mafia goons in Mensa than there are Philosophy professors. So I must retract my statement.
The mafia isn't a group to be played with. And one doesn't become a mafia hit man by being stupid. Not would one survive in that profession for long if he were stupid.
If believe your conclusion is highly unlikely simply based on the requirements of the organization he was dealing with and the job he held with them.
Yours is too easy an answer.
DF