1. Standard memberwittywonka
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    01 Jul '07 03:081 edit
    In light of the recent claims that the Bible is inerrant and lacking of any contradictions, I have started a list of contradictions in the Bible myself. All of the following verses have been taken from the King James translation.

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    Matthew 28:1
    "In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre."

    Mark 16:1
    "And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him."

    John 20:1
    "The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre."

    ***

    Genesis 1:25-26
    "And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.'"

    Genesis 2:18-19
    "And the LORD God said, 'It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.' And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof."

    (This is just one example of how the two creation stories in Genesis are contradictory.)

    ***

    Matthew 27:5
    "And he [Judas] cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself."

    Acts 1:18
    "...and falling headlong, he [Judas] burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out."

    __________________________________________________________________

    These are just a few of the contradictions in the Bible, but even one contradiction proves that the Bible is, in fact, errant.

    This does not mean that we are all doomed, it simply means we must interpret the meaning of the passages as God would intend. It makes for a more difficult task, but it allows us to challenge our faith. In saying this, I mean challenge in a strengthening way, not challenge in a detrimental way. By learning more about our interpretations and the interpretations of others, and constantly refocusing our interpretations, our faith can strengthen and develop.

    And don't misunderstand me, I definitely do not know an infallable way to interpret the scriptures in the Bible; such is the meaning of interpretation. In fact, I do not think anyone knows an infallable way to interpret the scriptures, again, going back to the meaning of interpretation. That is why discussing (and challenging) our interpretations is such a vital role in finding a closer-to-true meaning.
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    01 Jul '07 03:15
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    [b]In light of the recent claims that the Bible is inerrant and lacking of any contradictions, I have started a list of contradictions in the Bible myself. All of the following verses have been taken from the King James translation.

    __________________________________________________________________

    Matthew 28:1
    "In the end of the sabbath, as it began ...[text shortened]... t was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre."

    ***
    So the apparent contradictions are in Matthew two Mary's are said to have come as where in Mark it was said that the two Mary's came plus Salome. However, in John we are only told of only one Mary coming to the sepulchre. Am I correct? If so, does not including information equate a contradiction? If so it is a contradiction. If not then no it is not a contradiction.
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    01 Jul '07 03:20
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    In light of the recent claims that the Bible is inerrant and lacking of any contradictions, I have started a list of contradictions in the Bible myself. All of the following verses have been taken from the King James translation.

    __________________________________________________________________

    Matthew 28:1
    "In the end of the sabbath, as it began ...[text shortened]... our interpretations is such a vital role in finding a closer-to-true meaning.
    You're going to have to be more specific. Take the two creation verses and show me exactly what you think the contradiction is.
    Describe the contradiction in detail. Please!
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    01 Jul '07 03:22
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    Genesis 1:25-26
    "And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, ...[text shortened]... uld call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof."
    The apparent contradiction is that in the first story the animals were made and then man. In the second story it appears that man was made and then the animals. However, I notice that when it says that God "formed" the animals, it could be interpreted as saying that God "had already formed" the animals and then made man and not that they were formed after man had been made.
  5. Standard memberwittywonka
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    01 Jul '07 03:25
    Originally posted by josephw
    You're going to have to be more specific. Take the two creation verses and show me exactly what you think the contradiction is.
    Describe the contradiction in detail. Please!
    Certainly.

    Genesis 1:25-26 tells us that God created the creatures of the earth and later creates man.

    Genesis 2:18-19 tells us that God created man and later creates the creatures of the earth.
  6. Standard memberwittywonka
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    01 Jul '07 03:271 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    The apparent contradiction is that in the first story the animals were made and then man. In the second story it appears that man was made and then the animals. However, I notice that when it says that God "formed" the animals, it could be interpreted as saying that God "had already formed" the animals and then made man and not that they were formed after man had been made.
    This is true, but you said yourself that you are having to interpret the passage.
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    01 Jul '07 03:291 edit
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    Matthew 27:5
    "And he [Judas] cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself."

    Acts 1:18
    "...and falling headlong, he [Judas] burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out."
    Could it be that Judas hanged himself and then was cut down from the tree and subsequently thrown headlong down a hill of some kind after he had been discovered dead for a while? It would make more sense to me to think that someone who had been dead was capable of having their bowels "gush out" rather than someone who was alive and fell down a hill. After all, have you ever heard of someone fall and have their guts "gush out"? Also, throwing someone who had been dead for a while and who was unliked down a hill is quite possible in light of his subsequent treason against someone so beloved. Again, does possible omission equate a contradiction? If so, then it is a contradiction.
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    01 Jul '07 03:312 edits
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    This is true, but you said yourself that you are having to interpret the passage.
    I think you will find that ALL data has an element of interpretation. For example, if you look up at the sky you will notice the planets moving unlike the stars that are in a fixed position. The interpretation is that the planets move but the stars do not. However, ONLY after further investigation do we find that this is not the case. However, the original interpretation is correct despite being flawed. So to with scripture. Perhaps you are assuming the stars are in a fixed position, so to speak. Perhaps further investigation is needed?
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    01 Jul '07 03:43
    Can you come up with any more? I can. The lineage of Christ is mentioned in the first chapter of Matthew as well as in Luke chapter 3. If you notice, however, the lineages do not match. Unless......one is from Mary and the other from Joseph. 😉
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    01 Jul '07 03:46
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    Certainly.

    Genesis 1:25-26 tells us that God created the creatures of the earth and later creates man.

    Genesis 2:18-19 tells us that God created man and later creates the creatures of the earth.
    Genesis 2:18-19 tells us that God created man and later creates the creatures of the earth.[/b]

    Young fella, you have misread the verse. It does not say, in this verse, that God created the animals after he had created man. It just doesn't say that at all. It only states that God had made the animals and brought them to Adam to be given names. The order of creation is given in chapter 1.
  11. Hmmm . . .
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    01 Jul '07 03:52
    Jeremiah 7:22 For in the day that I brought your ancestors out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak to them or command them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices.

    _____________________________

    Exodus 29:36 Also every day you shall offer a bull as a sin offering for atonement. Also you shall offer a sin offering for the altar, when you make atonement for it, and shall anoint it, to consecrate it. 37 Seven days you shall make atonement for the altar, and consecrate it, and the altar shall be most holy; whatever touches the altar shall become holy. 38 Now this is what you shall offer on the altar: two lambs a year old regularly each day. 39 One lamb you shall offer in the morning, and the other lamb you shall offer in the evening; 40 and with the first lamb one-tenth of a measure of choice flour mixed with one-fourth of a hin of beaten oil, and one-fourth of a hin of wine for a drink offering. 41 And the other lamb you shall offer in the evening, and shall offer with it a grain offering and its drink offering, as in the morning, for a pleasing odor, an offering by fire to the LORD. 42 It shall be a regular burnt offering throughout your generations at the entrance of the tent of meeting before the LORD, where I will meet with you, to speak to you there. 43 I will meet with the Israelites there, and it shall be sanctified by my glory; 44 I will consecrate the tent of meeting and the altar; Aaron also and his sons I will consecrate, to serve me as priests. 45 I will dwell among the Israelites, and I will be their God. 46 And they shall know that I am the LORD their God, who brought them out of the land of Egypt that I might dwell among them; I am the LORD their God.

    Leviticus 1:1 The LORD summoned Moses and spoke to him from the tent of meeting, saying: 2 Speak to the people of Israel and say to them: When any of you bring an offering of livestock to the LORD, you shall bring your offering from the herd or from the flock. 3 If the offering is a burnt offering from the herd, you shall offer a male without blemish; you shall bring it to the entrance of the tent of meeting, for acceptance in your behalf before the LORD. 4 You shall lay your hand on the head of the burnt offering, and it shall be acceptable in your behalf as atonement for you. 5 The bull shall be slaughtered before the LORD; and Aaron's sons the priests shall offer the blood, dashing the blood against all sides of the altar that is at the entrance of the tent of meeting. 6 The burnt offering shall be flayed and cut up into its parts. 7 The sons of the priest Aaron shall put fire on the altar and arrange wood on the fire. 8 Aaron's sons the priests shall arrange the parts, with the head and the suet, on the wood that is on the fire on the altar; 9 but its entrails and its legs shall be washed with water. Then the priest shall turn the whole into smoke on the altar as a burnt offering, an offering by fire of pleasing odor to the LORD. 10 If your gift for a burnt offering is from the flock, from the sheep or goats, your offering shall be a male without blemish. 11 It shall be slaughtered on the north side of the altar before the LORD, and Aaron's sons the priests shall dash its blood against all sides of the altar. 12 It shall be cut up into its parts, with its head and its suet, and the priest shall arrange them on the wood that is on the fire on the altar; 13 but the entrails and the legs shall be washed with water. Then the priest shall offer the whole and turn it into smoke on the altar; it is a burnt offering, an offering by fire of pleasing odor to the LORD. 14 If your offering to the LORD is a burnt offering of birds, you shall choose your offering from turtledoves or pigeons. 15 The priest shall bring it to the altar and wring off its head, and turn it into smoke on the altar; and its blood shall be drained out against the side of the altar. 16 He shall remove its crop with its contents and throw it at the east side of the altar, in the place for ashes. 17 He shall tear it open by its wings without severing it. Then the priest shall turn it into smoke on the altar, on the wood that is on the fire; it is a burnt offering, an offering by fire of pleasing odor to the LORD.

    Numbers 15:1 The LORD spoke to Moses, saying: 2 Speak to the Israelites and say to them: When you come into the land you are to inhabit, which I am giving you, 3 and you make an offering by fire to the LORD from the herd or from the flock-- whether a burnt offering or a sacrifice, to fulfill a vow or as a freewill offering or at your appointed festivals-- to make a pleasing odor for the LORD, 4 then whoever presents such an offering to the LORD shall present also a grain offering, one-tenth of an ephah of choice flour, mixed with one-fourth of a hin of oil. 5 Moreover, you shall offer one-fourth of a hin of wine as a drink offering with the burnt offering or the sacrifice, for each lamb. 6 For a ram, you shall offer a grain offering, two-tenths of an ephah of choice flour mixed with one-third of a hin of oil; 7 and as a drink offering you shall offer one-third of a hin of wine, a pleasing odor to the LORD. 8 When you offer a bull as a burnt offering or a sacrifice, to fulfill a vow or as an offering of well-being to the LORD, 9 then you shall present with the bull a grain offering, three-tenths of an ephah of choice flour, mixed with half a hin of oil, 10 and you shall present as a drink offering half a hin of wine, as an offering by fire, a pleasing odor to the LORD.


    Deuteronomy 16:1 Observe the month of Abib by keeping the passover for the LORD your God, for in the month of Abib the LORD your God brought you out of Egypt by night. 2 You shall offer the passover sacrifice for the LORD your God, from the flock and the herd, at the place that the LORD will choose as a dwelling for his name. 3 You must not eat with it anything leavened. For seven days you shall eat unleavened bread with it-- the bread of affliction-- because you came out of the land of Egypt in great haste, so that all the days of your life you may remember the day of your departure from the land of Egypt. 4 No leaven shall be seen with you in all your territory for seven days; and none of the meat of what you slaughter on the evening of the first day shall remain until morning. 5 You are not permitted to offer the passover sacrifice within any of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you. 6 But at the place that the LORD your God will choose as a dwelling for his name, only there shall you offer the passover sacrifice, in the evening at sunset, the time of day when you departed from Egypt. 7 You shall cook it and eat it at the place that the LORD your God will choose; the next morning you may go back to your tents.

    ___________________________________

    Did God command the Israelites, when he brought them out of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices—or not? Was Jeremiah wrong—or not?
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    01 Jul '07 03:561 edit
    Originally posted by vistesd
    [b]Jeremiah 7:22 For in the day that I brought your ancestors out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak to them or command them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices.

    _____________________________

    Exodus 29:36 Also every day you shall offer a bull as a sin offering for atonement. Also you shall offer a sin offering for the altar, when yo m out of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices—or not? Was Jeremiah wrong—or not?[/b]
    Oops, I pushed the wrong button. I will have to look into this one more carefully. It might be awhile.
  13. Hmmm . . .
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    01 Jul '07 04:15
    Genesis 2:18 Then the LORD God said, "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper as his partner." 19 So out of the ground the LORD God formed every animal of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name. 20 The man gave names to all cattle, and to the birds of the air, and to every animal of the field; but for the man there was not found a helper as his partner.


    “I will make” indicates that he had not yet made. And so then he “formed out of the ground,” indicating the manner of making.

    God said, “I will make,” then he formed, then he brought. The statement of purpose here sets the context.

    Also, there is the sequence in Genesis 2:4-8—

    Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created. In the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, 5 when no plant of the field was yet in the earth and no herb of the field had yet sprung up—for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was no one to till the ground; 6 but a stream would rise from the earth, and water the whole face of the ground— 7 then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living being. 8 And the LORD God planted a garden in Eden, in the east; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

    ______________________________

    The point isn’t whether there are contradictions. The point is whether or not they matter in the context of the story being told—and its point.
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    01 Jul '07 04:22
    Originally posted by vistesd
    [b]Jeremiah 7:22 For in the day that I brought your ancestors out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak to them or command them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices.

    _____________________________

    Exodus 29:36 Also every day you shall offer a bull as a sin offering for atonement. Also you shall offer a sin offering for the altar, when yo ...[text shortened]... m out of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices—or not? Was Jeremiah wrong—or not?[/b]
    Ok. I've got your answer. But it will be better if you see it for yourself.
    First read 1Samuel 15:22. And then go back to Jeremiah and read 7: 23. And then go to Exodus and read from 14:30 to 15:26.
    And your question will be answered.

    I will be waiting for your reply.
  15. Standard memberNemesio
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    01 Jul '07 04:35
    Originally posted by whodey
    Could it be that Judas hanged himself and then was cut down from the tree and subsequently thrown headlong down a hill of some kind after he had been discovered dead for a while? It would make more sense to me to think that someone who had been dead was capable of having their bowels "gush out" rather than someone who was alive and fell down a hill. After a ...[text shortened]... . Again, does possible omission equate a contradiction? If so, then it is a contradiction.
    Well, since the Acts passage speaks of Judas' purchasing the field and falling headlong in it, you're
    really struggling to make things fit. Especially since the field was purchased by the priests in the
    Temple.

    I mean, this is what would have to have happened:
    Judas buys the field.
    Judas throws money in the Temple.
    Judas hangs himself in the field.
    Judas falls from the tree and bursts opened.
    Priests buy the same field.

    Does inerrancy matter this much to you that you need to take two passages clearly written and harmonize
    them in such a tortured and incoherent fashion? Does your faith hinge on every single literal detail's
    being true?

    JosephW? What about you?

    Why would you trust a text that would omit such basic details?

    Nemesio
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