The City of Water

Originally posted by sonship
The cowardly will not show that they can refute Romans 7,8 while they call those who believe it fools.

What you believe is a grossly twisted interpretation of the writings of Paul, and the reason why you choose to believe it is that you foolishly think that Paul is giving you a way to escape the commandments of Jesus Christ, because you do not care to follow it. For you following Christ is too hard, too legalistic and requires you to be too generous to the poor and needy.

It is interesting how you quote Revelation about who enters the Kingdom of God and who does not and yet you deny that the following of the commandments of Christ are REQUIRED for eternal life.

He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.(Revelation 21:7-8 KJV)

He that overcometh [that means to overcome sin and the desires of the flesh] will enter into the Kingdom of God. Others will be destroyed.

Originally posted by sonship
No, but...

There is no "but"...it's not in the Bible, period.

Originally posted by sonship
I bring to you truth which is not new but is being recovered.

You have an inflated opinion of yourself.

Originally posted by sonship
Did you all know that the city is a golden mountain? And the street with the river in the middle SPIRALS around and around and up and up as a spiral.

The city of the New Jerusalem is a mountain of gold. The street is actually a path cut out in the golden mountain.

The gold symbolizes the divine nature of the Father. So the city being a mountain o ...[text shortened]... to man and building up man into a corporate expression of the mingling of divinity and humanity.

I respectfully suggest that you get back to the basics of the gospel and stop posting all this pseudo-Christian mumbo-jumbo.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Is a great pity that what could have been a fruitful discussion is marred by extra Biblical dogma.

For once we are in agreement.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie

More attention to Robbie's post.

The life giving water is the Goodnews of Gods Kingdom which makes those who hear it and abide in it, possible for salvation, of which Christ himself stated to the Samaritan women at the well,

To this I would say that the Gospel is not just information. The Gospel is not just right teaching to have in the mind objectively.

The New Testament says the Gospel is "the unsearchable riches of Christ AS the Gospel"

" To me [Paul], less than the least of all saints was this grace given to announce to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ as the gospel." (Eph. 3:8)

So the gospel is not just objective right doctrine about a kingdom or any other matter.
Christ the Person Who is able to live in the saved, brings into them His riches. And these riches of who He is are inexhaustible and unsearchable.

Living in these riches of the exhaust-less wealthy Jesus Christ is living in the Gospel.

Robbie goes on:

Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” - John 4:13

In accord with what is written above, the water of life is ALSO Christ in a form in which He can come into man.

Who is the divine like?
It is Jesus Christ Himself.

"I am ... the life" (John 14:6)

In Jesus Christ the Person is divine life.

"In Him was life ... " (John 1:4)

With His life are the unsearchable riches of Himself. And these riches Paul lived and experienced and announced "as the gospel"

It is not wrong to say the Gospel is concerning the kingdom of God. But I add that experiencing the unsearchable riches of Jesus Christ ushers us into that kingdom of God. It is quite a subjective matter of the Jesus we receive and live by.

The gospel could not be incorrect information about Jesus being Michael the angel even though it is somewhat related to an earthly government. Robbie, being a teacher of the Jehovah's Witnesses, would lead you down this path.

I am just frankly speaking the fact. If you want to go down that path, then you listen to Jehovah Witnesses "gospel". But there is NOTHING in their teaching about an indwelling Spirit of Jesus Christ with His unsearchable riches.

How incumbent upon Christ's footstep followers it is to declare abroad the excellencies of the one who brought us forth out of darkness into his wonderful light!

This sounds very good.
This one who transfers the believers out of darkness into the marvelous light of the Son of His love we call "the Father".

This means the begetting God.
This is not just the Creator God.
Neither is this merely the governing God.
Neither is this merely the God out there Who is King ruling a kingdom.

The begetting Father is the God Who has dispensed His life into His saved children so that they have the authority to be "organically" members of His divine family in life.

"But as many as received Him [Jesus Christ] , to them He gave the authority to become children of God, to those who believe into His [Christ's] name.

Who were BEGOTTEN not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." (John 1:12,13)

The transferring Father that is spoken of in Colossians 1:12,13) is the BEGETTING God who dispenses His life into forgiven sinners.

Robbie would teach that this transferring Father is just the Creator of mankind. Well it is not wrong to say that God is the Creator of mankind. But we did not come into this world as His children. We have to believe into the name of Jesus Christ and receive Him to be BEGOTTEN of God - making the Creator our Father in the New Testament sense.

The apostle asks 'how will they put faith in him who they have never heard' unless someone is sent forth, how comely are the feet of the one declaring Goodnews.

They did say that.

Christianity was never about the self, it was about self sacrifice and giving our time and resources to help others take, 'life's waters free',

This water of life is the Spirit (John 7:39).
This Spirit is a Person and not just a force or energy.

I don't mind repeating it. When Jesus spoke in that same Gospel of John about the coming of the Spirit, He spoke of the coming of HIMSELF in another form.

" ... the Spirit of reality, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him; but you know Him, because He abides with you and shall be in you.

I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you." (John 14:17,18)

Who was with them?
Jesus Christ was with them.

Who was coming to them?
Jesus Christ was coming to them?

How was Jesus Christ coming to them?
He was coming as the Spirit of reality to be with them forever.

"He abides with you and shall be in you. ... I am coming to you."

Will the world at large be able to behold this One?
No, they will not But the disciples behold Him because He has been abiding WITH them for three and one half years nearly. And He is going to make a transition.

He will go from abiding WITH them to abiding IN them.
The Spirit of reality, the rivers of living water is the Person of Jesus Christ in another form.

He is coming to them as the life giving Spirit - a supernatural and divine "beverage" that they may "drink" in and into themselves.

The unsearchable riches of Christ as the Gospel will get into those who receive Jesus Christ. They become BORN of the divine Father.

Robbie continues quoting an excellent passage:

"Come!" And let the one who hears say, "Come!" Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life. Rev 22:17.

This may be the New World Translation used by the JWs.

The SPEAKING Spirit proves that the Spirit is not just a force but a Person.

" He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." ( Rev. 2:2,11,17,29; 3:6,13,22)

The Bride a corporate person of the builded church and the Spirit as God in Christ dispensed into the church SPEAK together.

" And the Spirit and the bride say, Come!" (Rev. 22:17a)

Jesus is AVAILABLE to be received INTO our being today. For He is the God giving, God dispensing, eternal life dispensing Spirit.

"the last Adam [Christ] became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)

Originally posted by Rajk999

What you believe is a grossly twisted interpretation of the writings of Paul, and the reason why you choose to believe it is that you foolishly think that Paul is giving you a way to escape the commandments of Jesus Christ, because you do not care to follow it. For you following Christ is too hard, too legalistic and requires you to be too generous to the poor and needy.

In other words you are saying that I say "Let us sin that grace may abound".

"What then shall we say? Should we continue to sin that grace may abound?

Absolutely not! ..." (See Romans 6:1,2a)

Your accusation is that I answer the question Paul poses in the affirmative. Your accuse me of teaching -

"Yes. We Christians should continue to sin that God's grace may abound."

But you lie. I say absolutely with Paul, the same as I am taught by the book of Romans.

" ... Should we continue to sin that grace may abound ?

Absolutely NOT! We who have died to sin, how shall we still live in it ?

This post I am moving over as a continuation of the thread on "The Diagnosis of Romans 7,8"

And I may extend it here as well to work it into "The City of Water"

Originally posted by Rajk999

For you following Christ is too hard, too legalistic and requires you to be too generous to the poor and needy.

For going on eight months now, I have had a family taking hospitality with my family. And it is not because we have that much room. But they are exceedingly needy because of a dysfunctional father.

But any thanksgiving for this goes absolutely to the empowering Lord Spirit Who lives within me and my wife.

We Christians have not received a legalistic spirit of fear which you love to propagate, as you seek to bring believers into legalistic slavery.

"For you have not received a spirit of slavery bringing you into fear again, but you have received a spirit of sonship in which we cry, Abba, Father!" (Rom. 8:15)

The law that I attend to is "the law of the Spirit of life" (Rom. 8:2a)

It is in your Bible. Read it.

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

For you have not received a spirit of slavery bringing you into fear again, but you have received a spirit of sonship in which we cry, Abba, Father!

The Spirit Himself witnesses with our spirit that we are children of God." (Rom. 8:14-16)

You don't write much about the Spirit.