The definition of illusion

Originally posted by vishvahetu
In this materialistic age of Kali, instead of God worship, men of poor intelligence worship sport.

If someone can put a little white ball in a hole, they are given all respect and glorified.

If someone can hit a ball over net better than the other person, they are given all respect and glorified.

If a person can catch a ball and get to the end of ...[text shortened]... doing the same thing, because their religion is ineffective of severing the attachment to sport.

I'm an atheist and i find the money paid to sports 'stars' obscene.

I guess that pisses over your piss-poor 'argument'.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
In this materialistic age of Kali, instead of God worship, men of poor intelligence worship sport.

If someone can put a little white ball in a hole, they are given all respect and glorified.

If someone can hit a ball over net better than the other person, they are given all respect and glorified.

If a person can catch a ball and get to the end of ...[text shortened]... doing the same thing, because their religion is ineffective of severing the attachment to sport.

The point that you are making is sound Vishy, sports personalities are idolised and that we have as a society a gross perversion of what is just, indeed, by the time you have read this statement, 23 children will have died of malnutrition while on the other side of the world someone else dies of obesity. There is inherent in the system in which we live almost a perversion of what is just, its not the result of people adopting atheism, but of economics and greed. The aspect that fascinates me is why someone who is successful in a particular sport should think themselves adept at other things, such as politics. I myself am really only good at one thing, i can paint and draw, design and sculpt, it hardly makes me good at other things though.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
I'm an atheist and i find the money paid to sports 'stars' obscene.

I guess that pisses over your piss-poor 'argument'.

I am not making an argument, I am giving a description of what illusion is......one description anyway.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
I am not making an argument, I am giving a description of what illusion is......one description anyway.

Every post you make is a perfect example of illusion. 🙄😉

Originally posted by vishvahetu
In this materialistic age of Kali, instead of God worship, men of poor intelligence worship sport.

If someone can put a little white ball in a hole, they are given all respect and glorified.

If someone can hit a ball over net better than the other person, they are given all respect and glorified.

If a person can catch a ball and get to the end of ...[text shortened]... doing the same thing, because their religion is ineffective of severing the attachment to sport.

Yet another balls up courtesy of vishvahetu! :]

Originally posted by vishvahetu
In this materialistic age of Kali, instead of God worship, men of poor intelligence worship sport.

Every time I read one of your posts you lose me on line one; this OP for example:

In this materialistic age of Kali, instead of God worship, men of poor intelligence worship sport.

So what you are saying is that men (or is that women too -- probably not though eh?) of higher intelligence will agree with you.

I'm happy to say I don't, because you are a fraud and full of crap frankly.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
In this materialistic age of Kali, instead of God worship, men of poor intelligence worship sport.

If someone can put a little white ball in a hole, they are given all respect and glorified.

If someone can hit a ball over net better than the other person, they are given all respect and glorified.

If a person can catch a ball and get to the end of ...[text shortened]... doing the same thing, because their religion is ineffective of severing the attachment to sport.

All things, including sport, can have a spiritual aspect to them. Consider sports psycology. Fascinating stuff.
Of course one must have their priorities in order and look within themselves to see if they should be following sport that day or perhaps visiting a temple. Everyday is different, and variety is not only the spice of life, it is a great educator.
Tis a beautiful in some ways. I've met a real Tibetan monk, something I probably couldn't have done 30 years ago unless I went to Tibet.(just one example of many)

I agree we worship our sport stars too much, but sometimes that not so bad. Its godd for kids who look to role models. And as much as I agree with you that Krsna would be a better role model, the reality is that its going to be Becks or Jordan and the like.
Thats alright. Just gotta know where to draw the line, as with all things..

Originally posted by divegeester
Every time I read one of your posts you lose me on line one; this OP for example:

In this materialistic age of Kali, instead of God worship, men of poor intelligence worship sport.

So what you are saying is that men (or is that women too -- probably not though eh?) of [b]higher intelligence will agree with you.

I'm happy to say I don't, because you are a fraud and full of crap frankly.[/b]

His story is selective.Its just a thin slice of the pie. It has elements of truth, but put into proper contest, I suspect you would get a totally different message.
Basically I suspect that the hindu culture would support sport as long as it was "kosher" (or whtaever word they use)

Originally posted by karoly aczel
All things, including sport, can have a spiritual aspect to them. Consider sports psycology. Fascinating stuff.
Of course one must have their priorities in order and look within themselves to see if they should be following sport that day or perhaps visiting a temple. Everyday is different, and variety is not only the spice of life, it is a great educa ...[text shortened]... an and the like.
Thats alright. Just gotta know where to draw the line, as with all things..

This is what i am saying: Everyones life is ticking down to death, and after death they will have to take birth again in this world of suffering, and do it all again.........and what are people doing?

Their worshiping sports, or women, or money, and they are doing nothing for their spiritual advancement, this worship of mundane things is illusionary wasted life.

People dont know the meaning and purpose of their human birth, and just chase sense enjoyment, which even the hogs, dogs, camels and asses can achieve.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
This is what i am saying: Everyones life is ticking down to death, and after death they will have to take birth again in this world of suffering, and do it all again.........and what are people doing?

Their worshiping sports, or women, or money, and they are doing nothing for their spiritual advancement, this worship of mundane things is illusionary ...[text shortened]... birth, and just chase sense enjoyment, which even the hogs, dogs, camels and asses can achieve.

In your spiritual universe where we all reincarnate etc - do you think that as a species we are improving or deteriorating with each reincarnation?

Originally posted by divegeester
In your spiritual universe where we all reincarnate etc - do you think that as a species we are improving or deteriorating with each reincarnation?

If we go to the spiritual universe after death, then we must have been engaged in the spiritual life very sincerely in previous lives........but when a person doesn't engage in spiritual living and thinking, they must take birth again........and your question do you improve or deteriorate with each birth in this world? .....well its different for each person and depends on their thoughts, their words and their actions.

But as a species, mankind is deteriorating ( because atheism is on the rise ) and it is becoming increasingly worse as explained by the Vedas:

According to the Vedic scriptures, our current age, known as Kali-yuga, is one of spiritual darkness, violence and hypocrisy. Srimad-Bhagavatam (12.2.31) records Kali-yuga as having begun when the constellation of the seven sages (saptarsi) passed through the lunar mansion of Magha. Hindu astrologers have calculated this to have been 2:27 a.m. on February 18, 3102 BC. This took place some 36 years after Lord Krsna spoke Bhagavad-gita to Arjuna.

The scriptures like SB 12.2 teach that during the 432,000 year age of Kali, humanity deteriorates and falls into barbarism. Humans begin to kill animals for food. They fall under the spell of intoxication. They lose all sexual restraint. Families break up. Women and children are abused and abandoned.

Increasingly degraded generations, conceived accidentally in lust and growing up wild, swarm all over the world. Political leadership falls into the hands of unprincipled rogues, criminals and terrorists, who use their power to exploit the people.

Entire populations are enslaved and put to death. The world teems with fanatics, extremists and spiritual artists, who win huge followings among a people completely dazed by hedonism, as well as by cultural and moral relativism. "Religion, truthfulness, cleanliness, tolerance, mercy, physical strength and memory diminish with each passing day." (Srimad-Bhagavatam 12.2.1)

The saints and sages of ancient India describe the people of this age as greedy, ill-behaved, and merciless. In this age, says Srimad-Bhagavatam, merely possessing wealth is considered a sign of good birth, proper behavior, and fine qualities. Law and justice are determined by one's prestige and power. Marriage ceases to exist as a holy union - men and women simply live together on the basis of bodily attraction and verbal agreement, and only for sexual pleasure.

Women wander from one man to another. Men no longer look after their parents in their old age, and fail to provide for their own children. One's beauty is thought to depend on one's hairstyle. Filling the belly is said to be the only purpose in life. Cows are killed once their milk production drops. Atheism flourishes. Religious observances are performed solely for the sake of reputation.

The Linga Purana (ch. 40) describes the human race in Kali-yuga as a vain and stupid people "spurred on by the lowest instincts." They prefer false ideas and do not hesitate to persecute sages. They are tormented by bodily desires.

Severe droughts and plagues are everywhere. Slovenliness, illness, hunger and fear spread. Nations are continually at war with one another. The number of princes and farmers decline. Heroes are assassinated. The working classes want to claim regal power and enjoy royal wealth.

Kings become thieves. They take to seizing property, rather than protecting the citizenry. The new leaders emerge from the laborer class and begin to persecute religious people, saints, teachers, intellectuals, and philosophers.

Civilization lacks any kind of divine guidance. The sacred books are no longer revered. False doctrines and misleading religions spread across the globe. Children are killed in the wombs of their mothers. Women who have relations with several men are numerous. Predatory animals are more violent. The number of cows diminishes.

The Linga Purana says that in Kali-yuga, young women freely abandon their virginity. Women, children, and cows - always protected in an enlightened society - are abused and killed during the iron age. Thieves are numerous and rapes are frequent. There are many beggars, and widespread unemployment. Merchants operate corrupt businesses. Diseases, rates, and foul substances plague the populace. Water is lacking, fruits are scarce. Everyone uses vulgar language.

The men of Kali-yuga seek only money. Only the richest have power. People without money are their slaves. The leaders of the state no longer protect the people, but plunder the citizenry through excessive taxation. Farmers abandon living close to nature. They become unskilled laborers in congested cities.

Many dress in rags, or are unemployed, and sleep on the streets. Through the fault of the government, infant mortality rates are high. False gods are worshiped in false ashrams, in which pilgrimages, penances, charities and austerities are all concocted.

People in this age eat their food without washing beforehand. Monks break their vows of celibacy. Cows are kept alive only for their milk. Water is scarce. Many people watch the skies, praying for rain. No rain comes. The fields become barren. Suffering from famine and poverty, many attempt to migrate to countries where food is more readily available. People are without joy and pleasure. Many commit suicide. Men of small intelligence are influenced by atheistic doctrines. Family, clan and caste are all meaningless. Men are without virtues, purity or decency. (Visnu Purana 6.1).

Now the sinful Kali Age is upon them, when Dharma is destroyed, an Age full of evil customs and deceit. Men pursue evil ways. The Vedas have lost their power, the Smritis are forgotten, and many of the Puranas, which contain stories of the past, and show the many ways (which lead to liberation), will, O Lord! be destroyed.

Men will become averse from religious rites, without restraint, maddened with pride, ever given over to sinful acts, lustful, gluttonous, cruel, heartless, harsh of speech, deceitful, short-lived, poverty-stricken, harassed by sickness and sorrow, ugly, feeble, low, stupid, mean, and addicted to mean habits, companions of the base, thievish, calumnious, malicious, quarrelsome, depraved, cowards, and ever-ailing, devoid of all sense of shame and sin and of fear to seduce the wives of others. Vipras will live like the Shudras, and whilst neglecting their own Sandhya will yet officiate at the sacrifices of the low.

They will be greedy, given over to wicked and sinful acts, liars, insolent, ignorant, deceitful, mere hangers-on of others, the sellers of their daughters, degraded, averse to all tapas and vrata. They will be heretics, impostors, and think themselves wise. They will be without faith or devotion, and will do japa and puja with no other end than to dupe the people. They will eat unclean food and follow evil customs, they will serve and eat the food of the Shudras and lust after low women, and will be wicked and ready to barter for money even their own wives to the low.

In short, the only sign that they are Brahmanas will be the thread they wear. Observing no rule in eating or drinking or in other matters, scoffing at the Dharma Scriptures, no thought of pious speech ever so much as entering their minds, they will be but bent upon the injury of the good. (Mahanirvana tantra 1.37-50)

Originally posted by vishvahetu
In this materialistic age of Kali, instead of God worship, men of poor intelligence worship sport.

If someone can put a little white ball in a hole, they are given all respect and glorified.

If someone can hit a ball over net better than the other person, they are given all respect and glorified.

If a person can catch a ball and get to the end of ...[text shortened]... doing the same thing, because their religion is ineffective of severing the attachment to sport.

We are so privileged, Vishy, to have you here, indefatigably chiding the spiritually ignorant for their manifold shortcomings.

How truly materialistic it is for people to take vicarious pleasure in the exhibition of grace and skill by sporting competitors! And on a regular basis too! Earth-bound savages!

If only most people could emulate you -- and steadfastly orient themselves towards the ineffable transcendent instead of the tiresomely quotidian -- the world would be a much better place.

Keep up the good work!

Originally posted by vishvahetu
If we go to the spiritual universe after death, then we must have been engaged in the spiritual life very sincerely in previous lives........but when a person doesn't engage in spiritual living and thinking, they must take birth again........and your question do you improve or deteriorate with each birth in this world? .....well its different for each pe r minds, they will be but bent upon the injury of the good. (Mahanirvana tantra 1.37-50)

If we are going to converse, can you at least try to be succinct please; I have no intention of any conversation I have with you being me writing 2 lines and you 50.

So, we are all being reincarnated thousands of times you say, but the human race is getting worse. You can't blame atheism, you can't blame greed, these are mere symptons of a deteriorating species.

Seems like reincarnation doesn't really benefit mankind I you ask me. On the other hand it could just be a load of rubbish and the real problem lays elsewhere.

Originally posted by divegeester
If we are going to converse, can you at least try to be succinct please; I have no intention of any conversation I have with you being me writing 2 lines and you 50.

So, we are all being reincarnated thousands of times you say, but the human race is getting worse. You can't blame atheism, you can't blame greed, these are mere symptons of a deteriorat ...[text shortened]... e. On the other hand it could just be a load of rubbish and the real problem lays elsewhere.

This age is the last age, (4 ages in one cycle) and theres thousands of cycles, where everyone is becoming less and less interested in their spiritual welfare........and reincarnation is always offering persons the opportunity to inquire and engage in the spiritual life, which will end their re-incarnation cycle.

When the cycle begins again, and we find ourselves back in the 1st age again, more persons "do" take to the spiritual life, because the materialistic influences are less prevalent.

The thing is, to return to the spiritual world a person must be qualified, and re-incarnation is always offering the people a chance to change their ways and become qualified.......but before a person can change their ways, they must gain spiritual knowledge and understanding, because without this, they have no impetus to change.

Who is going to live a spiritual life, if they dont know that they are spirit. (no one)