The divinity of Christ

Originally posted by Nemesio
If you're being sarcastic, then I would consider this belittling, because, as I've said, I strive to approach
everything prayerfully and with agape in my heart. If you were being serious, then I would
admonish you not to make light of the expectation to love your fellow man prayerfully.

Nemesio

ahosyney,

Have you come up with the prophesy's about Christ in the OT that Christ said exists or how about any for Mohammad if you believe they exist? One of my main concerns is that Mohammad does not seem to have the backing of scripture as Christ seems to as where Christ openly invites others to review his credentials, so to speak. I would be more than happy to show you the scriptures I believe to have been spoken about Christ that Christ himself said were written about him.

Originally posted by whodey
Jerry Landay in his book, "The Dome of the Rock" (Newsweek, New York, NY, 1972) p. 18, records that when Khalifah Omar entered Jerusalem in 639 AD, he was met by Sophronius, Bishop of the Jerusalem Church, who showed him around the city. Seeing the temple mount (then in rubble), Omar declared that he was going to build a memorial to Muhammad on the original ...[text shortened]... have managed to forget the prophetic words of Sophronius, Bishop of the Jerusalem church.

Originally posted by whodey
ahosyney,

Have you come up with the prophesy's about Christ in the OT that Christ said exists or how about any for Mohammad if you believe they exist? One of my main concerns is that Mohammad does not seem to have the backing of scripture as Christ seems to as where Christ openly invites others to review his credentials, so to speak. I would be more tha ...[text shortened]... res I believe to have been spoken about Christ that Christ himself said were written about him.

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I personally believe that the Comforter, that Jesus was talking about in Jn:16:7 , Jn:14:26, Jn:15:26, is prophet Mohammed.
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The Comforter in the Gospel of John is the Holy Spirit.

"But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name ..." (John 14:26)

Jesus clearly and unambiguously identifies "the Comforter" as "the Holy Spirit" in John 14:26.

When then did the disciples first encounter this Comforter - the Holy Spirit? It was after the resurrection of Christ when He breathed into His disciples in John chapter 20:

"Then Jesus said to them, Peace be to you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.

And when He had said this, He breathed into them and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit." (John 20:22)

In His state in resurrection Jesus breathed Himself in His pneumatic form into the disciples. He imparted the Holy Spirit, the Comforter into the disciples at that moment.

How can you say that hundreds of years latter, the coming of Mohammed was the coming of the Holy Spirit ?

The Holy Spirit was breathed into the eleven disciples in John 20:22.

If anyone prays believing that she or he is cleansed in the precious blood of Christ for redemption from all sins, that person can simply "Receive the Holy Spirit."

Christ as the Comforter, in His resurrected and pneumatic form will come into their human spirit.

"...the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)

You simply receive in faith like this "Lord Jesus, under your redeeming blood I am cleansed from all of my sins. Right now Lord Jesus, I receive the Holy Spirit. Thank you Lord Jesus."

You will sense Christ "breathing" into you again as He did to His disciples in John 20:22.

Christ, the life giving Spirit will enter into your heart to give you spiritual life.

Originally posted by jaywill
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I personally believe that the Comforter, that Jesus was talking about in Jn:16:7 , Jn:14:26, Jn:15:26, is prophet Mohammed.
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The Comforter in the Gospel of John is the Holy Spirit.

"But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name ..." Holy Spirit ?

The Holy Spirit was breathed into the eleven disciples in John 20:22.

Originally posted by Phuzudaka
Did Mohammad perform any great miracles? How do you know that Mohammad was the true prophet of God?

Just curious...

ahosney,

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First of all I know everything you said, I know that is what every Christian believe. But Christians approach to read the Bible, always ignores a lot about what the scripture realy said.
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Space and format require that our replies be rather concise.
You will soon see that just because one post did not cover all
relevant passages does not mean that I ignored something.

So bring on your arguments, each one of which, I already anticipate.


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The holy spirit was there before Jesus talked about the Comforter. The holy spirit is the one talked to Mary and Joseph regarding the birth of Jesus.
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I do not ignore that the Spirit of God is eternal Hebrews 9:14 - "the eternal Spirit".

The Spirit of God before the resurrection of Christ consisted of only the divinity of God. The Spirit of God after the resurrection of Christ had compounded into Him the humanity of the man Jesus as well. That SPirit was "not yet" until Jesus was glorified in resurrection. It says so here in John 7:38,39:

"Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, If anyone thirst, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes into Me, as the Scripture said, out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.

But this He said concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed into Him were about to receive; for the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified." (John 7:38,39)

The King James Version wrongly supplies the word "given" as in "not yet given". However the original Greek only reads "not yet".

The Spirit of the glorified resurrected Man Jesus of Nazareth was not yet until His resurrection. So though Jesus spoke of the eternal Spirit which was after all seen in the second verse of Genesis 1, the Spirit with the humanity of the resurrected Jesus was not yet.

Jesus was glorfied when He resurrected from the dead. After His resurrection He said - "Oh foolish and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken ... Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and enter into His glory?" (Luke 24:25,26)

So the Holy Spirit today was not yet until Jesus resurrected and entered into His glory. The Spirit of God previously to this contained the divinity of God. The Spirit of God after His resurrection had compounded into it the humanity of the man Jesus as well.

So Christ the last Adam "became" the life giving Holy Spirit - " ... the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)

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So it doesn't make any sense if Jesus was talking about the holy spirit here. He said the comforter will come if go. So he thought it was better for him to go to allow the comforter to come.
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You need prayer. And you need to pray for unveiling of your hardened mind.

It makes PERFECT sense. Before His resurrection Jesus could only be among the disciples in an outward way. They could walk with Him and sit in a room where He was. After His resurrection He could have a much more intimate relationship with His followers. He could be IN them as a life giving Holy Spirit.

That is why it was expedient for Him to go away to the CROSS to accomplish redemption by shedding His blood. Then this would permit man to come forward to God and allow the Holy God to come into the redeemed and forgiven man to be man's eternal life.

Since He came that we might have life and have it more abundantly - (John 10:10) it was EXPEDIENT for our sakes, that He go to the cross to die for our eternal redemption. Then in His resurrected state He could ENTER into His followers as "a life giving Spirit" to give them not only His physical nearness but His indwelling presence as divine life, which was MORE expedient for them:

"[Even] the Spirit of reality, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know [Him]; [but] you know Him, because He abides with you and shall be in you. (14:17)

I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you." (14:18)

The Holy Spirit as the "another Comforter" and as "the Spirit of reality" is just Jesus Christ Himself in another form in which He is able to enter into man's being. This is precisely why in verse 17 the "He" becomes "I" in verse 18:

"He abides with you and shall be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you."

Jesus Christ abided WITH the disciples outwardly and they knew Him. But soon, in the future, He will come to them in His resurrected state to dwell IN them. He will not leave them as orphans He will come to them.

The "He" in verse 17 suddenly changing to the "I" in verse 18 proves that the Holy Spirit is Christ Himself. And the Apostle Paul tells us the same thing:

"Now the Lord is the Spirit." (2 Cor. 3:17)[/b]

And again He tells us that the "He" Who was with the disciples, became the life giving "I" WITHIN the disciples - " ... the last Adam became a life giving Spirit."

For certain none of this points to Muhammed arriving on earth about four or five hundred years latter.


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Also the description of the Comforter doesn't match the Holy Spirit, specially when it said that:

(king James Version)(John)(Jn-16-13)(Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. )
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Wrong again. The description of the Holy Spirit matches JESUS. Jesus is the One who came not speaking from Himself but speaking as the Father gave Him to speak:

"The words that I say to you I do not speak from Myself, but the Father who abides in Me does His works" (John 14:10b)

" ... the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me." (John 14:24)

" ... He who sent Me is true, and what I have heard from Him, these things I speak to the world" (John 8:26)

"When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am, and that I do nothing from Myself, but as My Father has taught Me, I speak these things." (John 8:28)

So the description Jesus gives of the behavior of the Holy Spirit to come, is a description of the behavior of Jesus. This makes perfect sense because the Comforter is Jesus Christ in another form in which He can enter into people:

" .. the last Adam [Christ] became a life giving Spirit." (1 Cor. 15:45)

"Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him" (John 14:23)

It is through the Spirit of reality, the Another Comforter, the Holy Spirit that Jesus and His Father can come to His lover and make an abode with him.

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You believe that the holy spirit is part of the holy trinity , although this scripture clearly say that the comforter doesn't speak by himself, he doesn't speak by his own words. This description doesn't match a god.
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The Spirit of Christ is as subjected to the Father as Christ is subjected to the Father. So the description of the Holy Spirit's behavior is identical to that of Jesus the man.

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Also read this:

(king James Version)(John)(Jn-16-8)(And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: )

(John)(Jn-16-9)(Of sin, because they believe not on me; )

The holy spirit didn't reprove any one, but Prophet Mohammed did. He did reprove Jewsh not believing in Jesus. And it is very clear in Quran.
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Wrong again. Each and every human being who has ever been saved and become a follower of Jesus did so because he or she was convicted by the Holy Spirit.

Whether everyone listens to that conviction is entirely another matter. Most people ignore that conviction and do not repent. They will perish.

Nothing in John 14 through 16 remotely suggests that a "prophet" coming along four or five centries latter will be the Comforter, the Spirit of reality.

Go back and tell your teachers that they have misled you on this. And show them these proofs I have shown you.

ahosney,

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1- Other people here did address the points you raised specially the one about Isaiah 9:6. So it will not be of any use to talk about it again.
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Please point out to me whose particular post you thought refuted what I wrote about Isaiah 9:6.

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2- All what you said doesn't help. Jesus declared that the Father is the only true GOD. So what ever you said will prove nothing. And I did address almost every one of them.
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No they didn't.

And your latter writing on the Comforter have been proved wrong.

It is still clear that the Holy Spirit is Jesus Christ Himself in another form:

"Now the Lord is the Spirit" (2 Cort. 3:17)

If you have any doubt Who Paul means when he writes "the Lord" he tells you in 2 Cor. 4:5:

"For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord ..." (2 Cor. 4:5)

You fight against the words of Jesus in John 14. You fight against the word of His apostles in 2 Corinthians. And you even fight against the word of God in the Old Testament Isaiah 9:6.

Your Quran will always teach you to fight against the Bible.

Furthermore, it is as the Holy Spirit that the Son and the Father can come to make an abode with the lovers of Christ:

"Jesus answered ... If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, AND WE WILL COME TO HIM AND MAKE AN ABODE WITH HIM." (John 14:23 my emphasis)

You have no case whatsoever. You need to keep the word of Jesus. Then love the Lord Jesus. Then believing in His redemptive death for you, He and His Father will come to you also and make an abode within you. Then you will know the Comforter and the Spirit of reality.










I know that this is your faith, but your faith is taken from the bible by twisting many scriptures and ignoring others where Jesus declared his identity.

Originally posted by ahosyney
Yes he did, but what will this prove. Even Jesus after his great miracles , many didn't believe him. So what?

This thread is about the divinity of Jesus Christ, so we can't discuss why I believe prophet Mohammed is a prophet.

Originally posted by jaywill
ahosney,

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1- Other people here did address the points you raised specially the one about Isaiah 9:6. So it will not be of any use to talk about it again.
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Please point out to me whose particular post you thought refuted what I wrote about Isaiah 9:6.

+++++++++++++++ ...[text shortened]... ble by twisting many scriptures and ignoring others where Jesus declared his identity.

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The holy spirit was there before Jesus talked about the Comforter. The holy spirit is the one talked to Mary and Joseph regarding the birth of Jesus.

So it doesn't make any sense if Jesus was talking about the holy spirit here. He said the comforter will come if go. So he thought it was better for him to go to allow the comforter to come.
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Some people mistakenly think that it would be wonderful to walk and talk with Jesus 2000 years ago.

Today, the relationship of Jesus is much more intimate with His disciples. He can be within them as their divine life.

Then only those in physical close proximity could speak to and listen to Jesus. The man Jesus has been universalized as the "the bountiful supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ" (Philippians 1:19).

The Father and the Son, as the Holy Spirit, can come and make an abode with His the lovers of Jesus (John 14:23).


In this way Paul tells the Corinthians to realize that Jesus Christ lives within them:

"Test yourselves whether you are in the faith; prove yourselves. Or do you not realize about yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you, unless you are disapproved?" (2 Cor. 13:5)

Jesus Christ comes to live within the believers:

"In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you." (JOhn 14:20)

So the Apostle John says also that Christians know that Jesus lives in them because of the Spirit Whom He has given to them:

"And in this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He gave to us." (1 John 3:24)

"In this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, that He has given to us of His Spirit" (1 John 4:13)

So Paul tells us that it is Christ who lives in him:

"I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me ..." (Gal. 2:20)

So the one who has the Son has the Father also. But if one does not have the Son he does not have the Father either:

"Everyone who denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who confesses the Son has the Father also .... If that which you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father." (1 John 2:24)

Christ living in the believer is their hope of glorification at His second coming:

"To whom God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. (Col. 1:27)


And the Apostle Paul's last written words in the New Testament are a reminder to Timothy that the Lord Jesus is with his spirit:

"The Lord be with your spirit. Grace be with you." (2 Tim. 4:22)


For Christ has enter into the believers in Jesus to be their life:

"When Christ our life is manifested, then you also will be manifested with Him in glory." (Col. 3:4)

"For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain." (Phil. 1:21)

For Christ in resurrection, in order to live in man, became the life giving Spirit - " ... the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)

In this way from within man today He will manifest His reality to those who receive Him:

" ... he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will manifest Myself to him." (John 14:21)

Judas then asks HOW will Jesus manifest Himself to the disciples in the coming years after His resurrection:

"Judas, not Iscariot, said to Him, Lord, and what has happened that You are to manifest Yourself to us and not to the world?

Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him." (John 14:22,23)

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I think you better take a time to see the movie in Thread 74036. Just open your mind and think about what is being said there. Then come back and say whatever you want.
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Ahosney,

You do not need to dismiss me away to see some movie.

Try as you will to take your little broom and sweep all this truth into the corner like a pile of dust, you cannot.

God's eternal purpose is to dispense His life and His nature into man so that man and God might be united and blended as one.

Jesus Christ is the universal blending of God and man. The Man Jesus Christ is my God. And my God is the man Jesus.

I don't need to run off to see any movie. And you have no effective refutation of these great truths I have elaborated on from the Bible.

Why don't you take them to God in desperate prayer for mercy that your eyes may be opened?

Originally posted by ahosyney
I don't understand,

what is the memorial to Muhammad on the original site of the temple that Khalif Omar wanted to build?

Do you mean the Dome of Rock?

If yes, then this story is 100% fake for two reasons:

1- Building Memorials is 100% aganist the Islamic law. This is a clear direct order , I can get you the Hadith for this but you will not li ...[text shortened]... -------------------

Can you give me the scripture number in Danial that talks about this.