The divinity of Christ

Originally posted by Nemesio
If you're serious, you need medication for the paranoia.

Nemesio

It's official. You have no sense of humor. 😞

Originally posted by whodey
I have several question to ask if Jesus was only sent to minister for the Jews as mentioned in Matthew 10:5.

1. Since the Jews rejected Christ as the Messiah, were his efforts done in vain? If not, what was accomplished?
2. What of Matthew 28:19-20 that shows Christ telling his disciples to go to ALL the nations of the earth to proclaim the gospel? Why?

1- Not all Jews rejected him. Jewsh leaders did. But many other Jewsh followed him . And remember the other thread when we talked about the Ebionaioi , they were Jewsh who followed Christ. And also all the students of Jesus were Jews. He never preached during his life outside the Jewsh lands and people.

But that is not the only thing (I have to go to my believes this time), Jesus was also preaching of the comming of the prophet Mohammed. That is his real good news. In islamic traditions, bith Jews and Christians Knew that the prophet Mohammed was comming, and they were expecting him. Of course it is hard to me to explain this, but if you like we can discuss it in another time.

2-2. What of Matthew 28:19-20 that shows Christ telling his disciples to go to ALL the nations of the earth to proclaim the gospel? Why?

If Jesus really said that, don't you consider this a contradiction. Jesus in many pleases stress on his disples not to preach outside Jewsh places. Then he change his mind and tell them to do something different, I don't think it makes sense.

Note also this teaching only found in Matthew , it is not found in any of the other 3 gospels.

And if you look at the book of acts, you will find that non of the students nor Paul, used the Trinity form for baptizing people. It seems like they never heard about it.

The last thing I will say that you take a look at this link:
http://jesus-messiah.com/apologetics/catholic/matthew-proof.html

It is talking about the Hebrew Gosple of Matthew which I think the original one. You can bye this gosople and you can find it on the web it will. The part you are asking about doesn't exist. Matthew 28:19 only says "GO" in this gosple. I think this will solve this problem. Jesus didn't say it.

Originally posted by whodey
Christ was to be a descendant of the family of David who was the family of Jesse as foretold in Isaiah 11:1-5 and seen in Matthew 1 and Luke 3:23-38.

You need to explain this to me.

Jesus doesn't have a blood father. He only has a mother who was not a descendant of David.

So how can this be true.

Matthew 1, and Luke 3:23-38 are talking about Joseph as the father of Jesus which is not true.

I believe the gosple writters did that trying to match Jesus with the prophecies.

Originally posted by ahosyney
[b]1- Not all Jews rejected him. Jewsh leaders did. But many other Jewsh followed him . And remember the other thread when we talked about the Ebionaioi , they were Jewsh who followed Christ. And also all the students of Jesus were Jews. He never preached during his life outside the Jewsh lands and people.

So in your estimation he was successful in recruiting a few Jews despite the Jewish people as a whole rejecting him? God's purpose then was only to reach a few Jews despite the fact that the entire Jewish nation ended up rejecting him later?

Originally posted by whodey
I did read it but that is not my take on it. After all, the people that heard his rebuttal did not then say that he no longer blasphemes. They then later took him before the Jewish leaders and questioned him and he admitted that he was the Son of God and they accused him again of blasphemy. Interestingly, he then offered no defense. Why? Was he trying to mislead them? Was he trying to mislead me?

I didn't get what situation are you talking about. Can you give me a reference. Is that after they arrested him?

Originally posted by ahosyney
You need to explain this to me.

Jesus doesn't have a blood father. He only has a mother who was not a descendant of David.

So how can this be true.

Matthew 1, and Luke 3:23-38 are talking about Joseph as the father of Jesus which is not true.

I believe the gosple writters did that trying to match Jesus with the prophecies.

You can belive what you will, however, the blood line matches in regards to the gospels. I am only interested in what is written, not what I think should or should not be written.

Originally posted by ahosyney
I didn't get what situation are you talking about. Can you give me a reference. Is that after they arrested him?

Read Luke 23. The account is there and Jesus offers no defense. Why?

Originally posted by ahosyney
But that is not the only thing (I have to go to my believes this time), Jesus was also preaching of the comming of the prophet Mohammed. That is his real good news. In islamic traditions, bith Jews and Christians Knew that the prophet Mohammed was comming, and they were expecting him. Of course it is hard to me to explain this, but if you like we can discuss it in another time.

I think now is as good a time as any to discuss your belief. So you think that the overall intention of God sending Jesus to earth was to prepare the way for Mohammad? I thought the sole purpose of Jesus coming to earth was for the Jewish people? If so, Jesus failed miserably in helping to convert the Jewish people to Islam.

Originally posted by whodey
So in your estimation he was successful in recruiting a few Jews despite the Jewish people as a whole rejecting him? God's purpose then was only to reach a few Jews despite the fact that the entire Jewish nation ended up rejecting him later?

Jewsh exits today are the descendants of those who rejected him. But those who accepted him, are no more called Jewish. I mean Jewish people don't consider them so.

You may ask where are they now? I will tell ask you to search for Christian sects that don't follow the teachings of Trinity, and Salvation, and to search for Muslims.

In the period between Jesus Christ , and Prophet Mohammed, there were many sects. Many of them are mentioned in Quran. Some of them worshiped Mary and considered her GOD. And otheres really believed in 3 gods. But also there were the real followers of Jesus. And those returned to Islam.

God's purpose then was only to reach a few Jews despite the fact that the entire Jewish nation ended up rejecting him later?

You can't say they were few Jewish. You don't know how much are they. May be they were the Majority. I can't tell you exactly how much were they 🙂

Remember that Jewsh were still the nation of GOD. But their rejection of Jesus ended that.

Originally posted by ahosyney
2-2. What of Matthew 28:19-20 that shows Christ telling his disciples to go to ALL the nations of the earth to proclaim the gospel? Why?

If Jesus really said that, don't you consider this a contradiction. Jesus in many pleases stress on his disples not to preach outside Jewsh places. Then he change his mind and tell them to do something different, I ays "GO" in this gosple. I think this will solve this problem. Jesus didn't say it.[/b]

So your saying that because this appears to have been added later that it is invalid and Jesus never said it? Yet his disciples then went throughout the nations to proclaim the gospel as I pointed out in my disciple thread. In fact, Armenia became the first Christian nation. I can then only presume that his disciples disobeyed the commandment from the Lord not to go to the Gentiles.

It is my view that Christ came first to the Jewish people and then once they had rejected him he then extended his reach to the Gentiles. Therefore, I do not find Matthew 10:5 and Matthew 28:19-20 contradictory in any way.

Originally posted by ahosyney
Remember that Jewsh were still the nation of GOD. But their rejection of Jesus ended that.[/b]

So on the one hand Christ was successful in that he converted a few or even a large majority yet God rejected the Jewish people overall because they rejected him in the end? That seems contradictory to say the least.

Originally posted by whodey
So your saying that because this appears to have been added later that it is invalid and Jesus never said it? Yet his disciples then went throughout the nations to proclaim the gospel as I pointed out in my disciple thread. In fact, Armenia became the first Christian nation. I can then only presume that his disciples disobeyed the commandment from the Lord ...[text shortened]... Gentiles. Therefore, I do not find Matthew 10:5 and Matthew 28:19-20 contradictory in any way.

Remember when we talked about the conflict between the 12 apostles and Paul. Do you remember what did you say?

I think the 12 apostles were commited to Jesus teachings. But Paul was the one who didn't follow Jesus and so he was called the apostle of the nations.

Only because of Paul, Jesus message was nationalized. And if he didn't do that, there wouldn't have been Christianity.

Originally posted by ahosyney
Only because of Paul, Jesus message was nationalized. And if he didn't do that, there wouldn't have been Christianity.[/b]

I don't recall Paul going to Armenia.

Originally posted by whodey
So on the one hand Christ was successful in that he converted a few or even a large majority yet God rejected the Jewish people overall because they rejected him in the end? That seems contradictory to say the least.

GOD rejected those who rejected Jesus, not Jewish as race. It is different

It seems you are talking about Jewish as a race.

Jews are a race, and their religion is named after them. Judism is not the name of the religion given to it from GOD. It is the name given by humans to the religion of Mosses.

So Jesus messionary was to return Jewish to the original religion of Mosses what ever its name is.

So those who accepted Jesus, returned to GOD and they are accepted. (Actually quran talks about them, and say they are accepted and are in Heaven). And they are still Jewish by race.

Those who rejected Jesus and sticked to their traditions which are deviated from the original religion. They still call thier religion Judism and so they are still called Jewish. But because of their rejection of Jesus they are rejected.

Both accepted and rejected parts are Jewish in race, but are not Jewish in religion.

Originally posted by whodey
I don't recall Paul going to Armenia.

🙂

I think if he knew it was there, he would have been the first person to reach it.