29 Jul 07
Originally posted by ahosyneyJohn 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
You are lucky I'm still awake 🙂
No, because he never claimed to be divine, and he said that the father is the only true GOD in John 17:3
So eternal life requires knowing the Father and the Son? Interesting.
29 Jul 07
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Originally posted by whodeyJohn 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
So eternal life requires knowing the Father and the Son? Interesting.
What does the "know thee the only true God" tell you?
If Jesus is divine, why did he call the father the only true GOD. He is excluding himself from divin equation.
Don't you agree?
EDIT: Of course at the time of jesus to gain the eternal life you have to believe in Jesus as well. But what to believe? Jesus said it, " whom thou hast sent". It is to believe of him as sent from the only true GOD, the father.
29 Jul 07
1 edit
Originally posted by whodeyDon't know and don't know if it's at all important. Seems to me that what Jesus saw as imperative was for us to overcome sin and live a life of love, compassion, justice, etc. I wish more would truly follow Him. It would be a much different world.
Yea or nay and why?
29 Jul 07
Originally posted by whodeyhere's the problem: quoting the Bible as an infallible, unerroring source. it's not! it's full of errors and contradictions!
John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
So eternal life requires knowing the Father and the Son? Interesting.
29 Jul 07
Originally posted by ahosyneyThe concept of the Trinity in no way denies that there is only one God. In fact, Christ said that if you have seen me you have seen the Father and that they were One even though Christ talked about the Father at times as if they were seperate entities.
What does the "know thee the only true God" tell you?
Edit: Has any of the other prophet made such a claim as Christ? For example, did Moses say that you must know me to inherit eternal life? Did Isaiah? How about Jeremiah? No, I don't recall such a claim from any other prophet.
29 Jul 07
Originally posted by EcstremeVenomYou mean like the mortals reading it? 😛
im sure a book that long written by mortals would have errors 😕
You see that there are 4 gospels. Why? I say that it is because there was to be left NO doubt as to the validity of what was being told because perhaps the authors were prone to "errors" despite being inspired by God to write the accounts. In fact, the entire NT is centered around Christ. Why? Most of the books in the NT refer to Christ as the one who died and rose again and who is the resurrection and the life. So such consistent and repeated claims made by vairous authors throughout a wide range of time MUST say something about the validity of what is attempted to be conveyed.
29 Jul 07
Originally posted by whodeyWell, I would say that the answer to this is a matter of faith. I would suppose that the majority of
Yea or nay and why?
the world would say 'No,' because they disbelieve in Creedal Christianity. I would suppose that most,
but not all, Christians would say, 'Yes,' because they've adopted the tenets of the Apostles' Creed as
articles of faith. The reason I say not all is because the assertion is not substantiated from purely
a Scriptural basis. Naturally, the Creedal assertions are not directly contradicted by Scripture, but
one need not be a follower of the Creed in order to be a Scripture-centered Christian. If I recall correctly,
CheckBaiter is one such Christian who does not believe in the Divinity of Christ.
There is no way to 'prove' it one way or the other. We don't have Jesus' body or video evidence of
His Resurrection and/or Assumption or anything objective to offer skeptics and believers alike. All
we have is the Bible -- that is, a testimony of faith -- and the writings of the Christians which resulted
from that.
It wasn't clear to me if the intent of this thread was to initiate a discussion about the Bible's support
or non-support of Jesus' divinity, so I didn't want to interject with such material for fear of derailing
the thread's purpose. If that was the thread's purpose, then let me know, and we can examine the
Christian Scriptures.
Nemesio
29 Jul 07
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneDo I understand you correctly that you feel that His divinity (or lack thereof) is inessential to
Don't know and don't know if it's at all important. Seems to me that what Jesus saw as imperative was for us to overcome sin and live a life of love, compassion, justice, etc. I wish more would truly follow Him. It would be a much different world.
Christian faith and the resultant duties that being a Christian demands?
Nemesio
29 Jul 07
Originally posted by whodeySpeaking of prophets, how about Isaiah?
The concept of the Trinity in no way denies that there is only one God. In fact, Christ said that if you have seen me you have seen the Father and that they were One even though Christ talked about the Father at times as if they were seperate entities.
Edit: Has any of the other prophet made such a claim as Christ? For example, did Moses say that you mus ...[text shortened]... ife? Did Isaiah? How about Jeremiah? No, I don't recall such a claim from any other prophet.
Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government will be upon his shoulder; and his name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, the Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace"
How can God be born?
You see, you do not only have a variety of NT authors who are "fallible" but inspired, but you also have OT writers who refer to him as well. So how many "fallible" authors does it take to agree on a truth that turns it into a great likelyhood?
29 Jul 07
Originally posted by NemesioThrow out the Creed if you like and simply study the same scriptures those that made the Creed had to work with.
Well, I would say that the answer to this is a matter of faith. I would suppose that the majority of
the world would say 'No,' because they disbelieve in Creedal Christianity. I would suppose that most,
but not all, Christians would say, 'Yes,' because they've adopted the tenets of the Apostles' Creed as
articles of faith. The reason I say not all is b ...[text shortened]... pose, then let me know, and we can examine the
Christian Scriptures.
Nemesio
29 Jul 07
Originally posted by NemesioIt was not my intent to adress this issue in this thread. If you would like to adress it, however, please feel free to start another. You know, no one like to be hijacked. 😉
Do I understand you correctly that you feel that His divinity (or lack thereof) is inessential to
Christian faith and the resultant duties that being a Christian demands?
Nemesio