1. Standard memberSecondSon
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    20 Dec '18 23:25
    Probably the biggest mistake made by the immature, scripturally ignorant, unschooled, unlearned and unchurched majority of self styled alleged Christians throughout the ages, but not limited to them only, it would also include atheists, unbelievers, naysayers, legalists, denominationalist, elitist, etc. etc., is the neglect of one very misunderstood simple rule.

    It seems that some of the posters in this forum impose onto the text of scripture an interpretation based on how they think it should be understood. They read, or hear, a verse, or passage, and feel, or imagine, it means something based on their own human intellect.

    They fail to understand how to allow the text to speak to them.

    Instead, they read the Bible as though it was a text book written by and through human ingenuity.

    It is a grave error, and responsible for virtually all contentions.

    Not one jot or title is without design and purpose by God Himself. When one reads the Bible it must be perceived and received from the perspective that God is speaking directly to the reader.

    God's Word interprets itself, and reveals to the mind and spirit what is the perfect will of God.

    Romans 12:2b
    ...but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

    Psalm 19:7-9
    The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
    The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
    The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.

    2 Timothy 3:16,17
    All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
    That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

    Hebrews 4:12,13
    For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
    Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

    Let the Word speak for itself. In my opinion it's the only way to understand it correctly.
  2. SubscriberFMF
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    21 Dec '18 02:09
    @secondson said
    Probably the biggest mistake made by the immature, scripturally ignorant, unschooled, unlearned and unchurched majority of self styled alleged Christians throughout the ages, but not limited to them only, it would also include atheists, unbelievers, naysayers, legalists, denominationalist, elitist, etc. etc., is the neglect of one very misunderstood simple rule.

    It seems ...[text shortened]... to do.

    Let the Word speak for itself. In my opinion it's the only way to understand it correctly.
    Do you believe that any of these disagreements, and different interpretations that divegeester has compared to you, are a barrier to him being "saved" by his belief in Jesus Christ?
  3. SubscriberFMF
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    21 Dec '18 02:23
    @secondson said
    God's Word interprets itself, and reveals to the mind and spirit what is the perfect will of God.
    And yet there are - they say - over 40,000 Christian denominations. That suggests that the assertion that "God's Word interprets itself" is not true [in the reality of people's lives] and that an assertion that people interpret "God's Word" - as they see fit and in accordance with their heterogeneous understanding - is closer to the truth.

    Hence all the disagreements and competing interpretations that the '40,000' number points to.

    Presumably, you believe that your own interpretation of the Bible and what you see as the outcome of "God's Word interpreting itself" are one in the same?
  4. Standard membersonship
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    21 Dec '18 17:072 edits
    @FMF

    This problem is less in having different interpretations but in establishing divisions in the church built upon those interpretations.

    The churches established in the New Testament were according to localities. Saints may have held different intepretations and opinions about some things. Dividing the local church by those opinions is the etablishment of divisions - denominations.

    While it is a scandal it will not defeat Christ.
    And it doesn't argue that the Holy Spirit will lead the believers into all the truth and eventually have the last word.

    I can have a difference of opinion in Dunn Loring VA with another brother and sister in Dunn Loring VA. Yet we do not divide the church in Dunn Loring VA. according to those differences to form two divisions - two denominations.
  5. Standard memberKellyJay
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    21 Dec '18 17:38
    @fmf said
    Do you believe that any of these disagreements, and different interpretations that divegeester has compared to you, are a barrier to him being "saved" by his belief in Jesus Christ?
    His relationship with Jesus Christ is all that matters not his agreement with me or anyone else. To be very clear not the Jesus someone makes up in their head, but the Son of God.
  6. SubscriberRagwort
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    21 Dec '18 21:57
    "It is not opinion, or speculation, or notions of what is true, or assent to or the subscription of articles or propositions, though never so soundly worded, that … makes a man a true believer or a true Christian. But it is a conformity of mind and practice to the will of God, in all holiness of conversation, according to the dictates of this Divine principle of Light and Life in the soul which denotes a person truly a child of God"

    William Penn, 1692
    (QF&P 26.78)
  7. SubscriberFMF
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    21 Dec '18 23:50
    @sonship said
    @FMF

    This problem is less in having different interpretations but in establishing divisions in the church built upon those interpretations.

    The churches established in the New Testament were according to localities. Saints may have held different intepretations and opinions about some things. Dividing the local church by those opinions is the etablishment of divisions - denominations.

    While it is a scandal it will not defeat Christ.
    Which believers in Christ here, if any, are trying to "defeat Christ" to your way of thinking?
  8. SubscriberFMF
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    21 Dec '18 23:53
    @kellyjay said
    His relationship with Jesus Christ is all that matters not his agreement with me or anyone else. To be very clear not the Jesus someone makes up in their head, but the Son of God.
    So, to be clear, the substance of his disagreements and different interpretations compared to you, are not a barrier to him being "saved" by his belief in Jesus Christ ~ according to your belief in how one is or isn't "saved"?
  9. Standard memberKellyJay
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    22 Dec '18 11:17
    @fmf said
    So, to be clear, the substance of his disagreements and different interpretations compared to you, are not a barrier to him being "saved" by his belief in Jesus Christ ~ according to your belief in how one is or isn't "saved"?
    He can disagree with me all day long, but if he is right with Christ, it is Christ not me
    that matters. I am no different than anyone else here, I'm not that important to cause
    someone to fall away from Christ on my word. If he is right with the Lord who am I
    to judge another's servant? That said, it is still between him and Jesus Christ, not right
    there, the same truth applies, it will not matter if he is total agreement with me and
    everyone else either, because Jesus is the Way, Truth, and Life.
  10. Subscriberdivegeester
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    22 Dec '18 12:30
    @kellyjay said
    I am no different than anyone else here
    Well that is not entirely true is it KellyJay; according to you, you are saved from being eternally tortured in hell because you believe in Jesus and because he loves you, you personally.

    Whereas ghost of a duke, for example, is hated by your version of Jesus because he is a sinner, right?

    So you are loved by Jesus and GoaD is hated by Jesus, all because of something that is of no credit to you.
  11. SubscriberFMF
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    22 Dec '18 12:57
    @kellyjay said
    He can disagree with me all day long, but if he is right with Christ, it is Christ not me
    that matters. I am no different than anyone else here, I'm not that important to cause
    someone to fall away from Christ on my word. If he is right with the Lord who am I
    to judge another's servant? That said, it is still between him and Jesus Christ, not right
    there, the same truth ...[text shortened]... he is total agreement with me and
    everyone else either, because Jesus is the Way, Truth, and Life.
    I wasn't asking you to serve up a bromide recitation. I was asking you a point blank and very specific question about your beliefs.
  12. Standard memberKellyJay
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    22 Dec '18 21:04
    @fmf said
    I wasn't asking you to serve up a bromide recitation. I was asking you a point blank and very specific question about your beliefs.
    And I answered
  13. SubscriberFMF
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    22 Dec '18 21:37
    @kellyjay said
    And I answered
    No, you didn't. You responded with one of your trademark spammy rote-learned non-answers.
  14. Subscriberdivegeester
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    22 Dec '18 21:40
    @fmf said
    No, you didn't. You responded with one of your trademark spammy rote-learned non-answers.
    Furball™
  15. Standard memberSecondSon
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    23 Dec '18 00:21
    @ragwort said
    "It is not opinion, or speculation, or notions of what is true, or assent to or the subscription of articles or propositions, though never so soundly worded, that … makes a man a true believer or a true Christian. But it is a conformity of mind and practice to the will of God, in all holiness of conversation, according to the dictates of this Divine principle of Light and Life in the soul which denotes a person truly a child of God"

    William Penn, 1692
    (QF&P 26.78)
    Great quote ragwort.
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