26 Dec 18
@sonship saidThere are translations which use “hands over”From psalm 2:7
“You are my son;
today I have become your father.”
The Son of God is spoken of as not having beginning of days nore end of life in Hebrews 7:3.
The writer is impressing us that even though be became a man He is ETERNAL as to both past and future
[quote] Being without father, without mother, without geneology, having neither b ...[text shortened]... d homs of "waffle" or "hairdryer" get in the way of the wonderful and mysterious truth of the Bible.
There is no mention of “eternal son” anywhere in the bible. It is a made up teaching and no amount of tangential exegesis will change that fact.
If “today” means the day of Christ’s resurrection or any other day it is still irrelevant to the FACT that the fathership and sonship has a beginning and therefore are not eternal.
The teaching of the “eternal son” is very easily debunked as I have now shown on at least 3 occiasions in this thread.
The need for this teaching gets its energy and derivation from the erroneous teaching of the trinity; another non bible mentioned man- made idea which blocks further truth.
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26 Dec 18
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I agree the deity and humanity of Christ messes with people’s thinking and beliefs. It can be said by and of Jesus, He can truthfully say before Abraham I AM, and He was born and died. As it can be said the Father and the Holy Spirit are also God, the three persons being the one God.
Very well said. The revelation is humbling to our innate pride. We have to come as little children trusting what our Father God has said.
Great post.
I was taught that we should always "Amen" the word of God in whatever it says in the Holy Spirit.
I was taught that along with studying the Bible, we should PRAY the Bible with an "AMEN" to every line without partiality.
I realize I can be a trying nuisance to some here. But I encourage Christians just to take what is said even if logically it is very hard to reconcile a passage here with a passage elsewhere.
You post here encourages me that you understand, we simply have to embrace ALL that God tells us with trust.
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Do you think that both you and divegeester are "saved" despite your somewhat different beliefs with regard to Jesus?
It is possible.
I don't feel to say anything more about this except that it is possible two Christians with a sharp contention on something like this might both be regenerated.
Don't press me more to elaborate because that is all I feel needs to be said.
If you try to develop your question into an in depth cross examination, I don't feel more needs to be said.
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26 Dec 18
Divegeester, if you think that "deliver up" means to "hand over", I am open minded to hear you making that case linguistically.
Now I said, I am open minded to HEAR you make that case. I don't feel to make it for you. But I will listen.
Can you make a case that 1 Cor. 15:24's "deliver up" means to relinquish, give up, hand over, absolve from ownership and responsibility of the kingdom ?
26 Dec 18
@sonship saidNIV version for one. Others I believe also.
Divegeester, if you think that "deliver up" means to "hand over", I am open minded to hear you making that case linguistically.
Now I said, I am open minded to HEAR you make that case. I don't feel to make it for you. But I will listen.
Can you make a case that 1 Cor. 15:24's "deliver up" means to relinquish, give up, hand over, absolve from ownership and responsibility of the kingdom ?
I don’t expect you to accept my interpretation sonship, after all you are the self proclaimed teacher here. I’m sure your overlords will provide you with plenty of scriptures which you can puff out into several concurrent posts laden with html convolutions.
Go ahead.
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26 Dec 18
2 edits
There are translations which use “hands over”
I checked Bible Hub and couldn't find one.
They have translations and paraphrases.
If you know of a rendering "hands over" in 1 Cor. 15:24 tell me.
There is no mention of “eternal son” anywhere in the bible.
what would you call a Son of God without beginning of days or end of life, without father or mother as taught in Hebrews 7:3 ? Isn't that an eternal Son of God ?
Answer specifically.
It is a made up teaching and no amount of tangential exegesis will change that fact.
No it isn't. But your next post can tell us WHAT the writer of Hebrews was trying to convey, that the Son of God had no beginning of days or end of life.
Is the writer trying to communicate that the Son of God is NOT eternal ?
I say he is telling us we should understand the Son of God HAD NO BEGINNING, and HAS NO END.
Eternal, just like God would be.
If “today” means the day of Christ’s resurrection or any other day it is still irrelevant to the FACT that the fathership and sonship has a beginning and therefore are not eternal.
In one sense I agree.
But we still have a Son without beginning of days.
And we still have a Word that was with God and WAS God.
So we should embrace the total truth even if it is paradoxical.
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26 Dec 18
3 edits
The teaching of the “eternal son” is very easily debunked as I have now shown on at least 3 occiasions in this thread.
I don't think so.
I don't think so in about 20 centuries now.
The need for this teaching gets its energy and derivation from the erroneous teaching of the trinity; another non bible mentioned man- made idea which blocks further truth.
Shall I assume that "the Word" in John 1:1 is not the Son of God ?
But then when He became flesh John says we beheld Him as the only begotten Son. (v. 14)
"And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us (and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only Begotten from the Father), full of grace and reality." (John 1:14)
Again, "the Word" that he spoke of is the Son of God in the bosom of the Father.
No one has ever seen God; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him." (v.18)
Are you then saying that "the Word" was not the Son of God ?
OR ... are you saying that He was the Son of God but at some point was NOT with God and was NOT God?
Tell us when in eternity past then the Word -
was NOT,
was NOT with God,
and was NOT God.
I need to see it in the Bible.
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26 Dec 18
4 edits
NIV version for one. Others I believe also.
NIV would be one of the FIRST places I would check. I now admit that I missed it.
It on this website. And you're right. I cross checked again and found it at the Hub.
1 Corinthians 15:24 New International Version (NIV)
24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
Okay. You have a paraphrased version that has "hands over". I'll look into it.
Diveteester cheerleaders don't put your pom poms away just yet.
I don’t expect you to accept my interpretation sonship,
I want to see how reasonable it is.
after all you are the self proclaimed teacher here.
You won't be able to locate ONE post in the several years of my participation where I wrote that I am THE TEACHER here.
I may be one of a few, including yourself.
You are just a teacher, like me, who needs some correction on something.
If I lie please paste in my declaration of being THE TEACHER on the Spirituality Forum.
Get your supporter FMF to help you locate it.
I’m sure your overlords
I have one Lord - the Lord Jesus.
Being in agreement with some other better teachers is slanderously twisted by you to mean sycophantic slavery.
Go learn what Paul meant when he said of Titus that they walked in the same spirit and in the same steps.
New International Version NIV
I urged Titus to go to you and I sent our brother with him. Titus did not exploit you, did he? Did we not walk in the same footsteps by the same Spirit? (2 Cor. 12:18)
I gave you your paraphrase that you like. But in the the American Standard ( a stricter translation ) it reads
American Standard Version
I exhorted Titus, and I sent the brother with him. Did Titus take any advantage of you? walked we not in the same spirit? walked we not in the same steps?
The point being that there is no shame in a servant of God and a learner from that servant walking in the same spirit and in the same steps. Oh, that I could walk like some of my mature brothers that have helped me.
What you meant for shaming me I find gloriously privileged to be associated with such men.
will provide you with plenty of scriptures which you can puff out into several concurrent posts laden with html convolutions.
Go ahead.
All I need to do is show that the "waffle" Daniel 12:14 is that the Son of Man has "an eternal dominion".
Job done.
26 Dec 18
@sonship saidNIV
@divegeester
There are translations which use “hands over”
I checked Bible Hub and couldn't find one. .
Lol
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@divegeester
After you have a good laugh ( at my missing it maybe at Bible Hub), remember I only ASKED you to show me one.
You did. So good for you.
But what needs to be done is to go into a Greek Lexicon and find out what "delivers up" in Greek best translates into in English.
That is, I believe, where the best case lies. Because I am interested in the truth rather then winning arguments, I'll go to study that matter. You didn't yet it seems.
Thanks for pointing me to the NIV.
No more cracks about my HTML.
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Are you sure about that ?
Yes. Why would I take on the responsibility of being THE one and only Teacher on the Spirituality Forum ???
You're talking crazy.
My Tag reads "The corrected one" in fact.
Now show us the announcement of me being THE official only Teacher here.
or shut up about it.
26 Dec 18
@sonship saidIt just amuses me when me, the backslidden child of perdition, the friend of atheists, the vilest of the vile....knows his bible better than you and SecondJospeh.
@divegeester
After you have a good laugh ( at my missing it maybe at Bible Hub), remember I only ASKED you to show me one.
You did. So good for you.
But what needs to be done is to go into a Greek Lexicon and find out what "delivers up" in Greek best translates into in English.
That is, I believe, where the best case lies. Because I am interested in ...[text shortened]... You didn't yet it seems.
Thanks for pointing me to the NIV.
No more cracks about my HTML.