Originally posted by FreakyKBHSurely, if you don't feel guilt then you have committed no sin and are thus perfect.
[b]Where does that come from?
The word of God.
Surely you members of the god-squad must feel guilt when you commit a sin or is it that you're perfect?
Although some believers do indeed have reactions to their own shortcomings, those who are mature respond correctly, via I John 1:9. I'm not sure why you would even consider asking whether I view myself as having attained perfection. What a silly thing to suggest.[/b]
Originally posted by PhisNot necessarily, but I wonder why guilt would be a sin.
Surely, if you don't feel guilt then you have committed no sin and are thus perfect.
I mean, if I murdered someone is it a sin also that I would feel guilty? Wouldn't god want me to feel guilty?
Why would I repent for any sin if I didn't feel guilty for committing such sins?
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Originally posted by twhiteheadFor the same reason homosexuals believe heterosexuals are 'closet' homos wracked by desire.
I have encountered a number of theists on this site and off, who don't seem to believe in the existence of atheists.
For example:
Originally posted by FreakyKBH
But I know it must bring you great comfort in believing such nonsense: it makes rejection of the biblical truths (and therefore, accountability to the same) that much more managea ...[text shortened]... . uilt? What is so hard about accepting that some people simply do not believe that God exists?
Originally posted by YugaThat's the claim that atheists strongly disagree with.
That's the claim that atheists strongly disagree with. The assumption cannot be made; there is no valid basis for it. Nothing, not even a 2000 year old textbook loaded with inconsistencies can make that assumption true.
I feel it best to simply accept the good moral tenets of a religion. People don't need an illusion of God to live a moral and fulfilling life.
Thanks for that update.
The assumption cannot be made; there is no valid basis for it.
Assumption is not required; it is a foregone conclusion bore out by the written history of man. It is a basic fact regardless of its conseqences.
People don't need an illusion of God to live a moral and fulfilling life.
You can only argue with yourself on this one: no one yet has said anything about man's need of God for morality.
Originally posted by PsychoPawnBecause our emotions have nothing to do with spirituality. How I feel about anything is inconsequential: how God views the matter is the all-important issue. My emotions do nothing for or against any situation... unless, of course, I am relying on my emotions as the method to 'fix' whatever may be broken by my actions. Then, my emotions leave their normal state of neutrality and become sin.
Not necessarily, but I wonder why guilt would be a sin.
I mean, if I murdered someone is it a sin also that I would feel guilty? Wouldn't god want me to feel guilty?
Why would I repent for any sin if I didn't feel guilty for committing such sins?
Most definitely, God does not want anyone to feel guilty.
Originally posted by FreakyKBHSo god doesn't want me to feel bad if I murdered someone? That just convinces me more that the christian vision of god is f'ed up.
Because our emotions have nothing to do with spirituality. How I feel about anything is inconsequential: how God views the matter is the all-important issue. My emotions do nothing for or against any situation... unless, of course, I am relying on my emotions as the method to 'fix' whatever may be broken by my actions. Then, my emotions leave their norm ...[text shortened]... ate of neutrality and become sin.
Most definitely, God does not want anyone to feel guilty.
I disagree that emotions are irrelevant. Emotions are one of the things that primarily drive our actions. Fear, guilt, etc... all define how we react and act on stimuli and can be helpful or harmful.
Guilt is what primarily prevents us from repeating an immoral or bad act a second time. Guilt is what makes us apologize to those we have wronged. Yet god would want us to not feel any guilt?
Originally posted by PsychoPawnYour multifacted arguments make me forget: for which position are you contending?
So god doesn't want me to feel bad if I murdered someone? That just convinces me more that the christian vision of god is f'ed up.
I disagree that emotions are irrelevant. Emotions are one of the things that primarily drive our actions. Fear, guilt, etc... all define how we react and act on stimuli and can be helpful or harmful.
Guilt is what prim ...[text shortened]... hat makes us apologize to those we have wronged. Yet god would want us to not feel any guilt?
Originally posted by FreakyKBHI don't believe in god, but I do try to understand the worldview of those who do.
Your multifacted arguments make me forget: for which position are you contending?
I contend that guilt serves a purpose just like most emotions.
I just don't know why any god would see guilt as being a "sin" - just like I wouldn't be able to see why any god would see fear as being a sin. Especially when christianity seems to hold forgiveness in such a high regard. Guilt is what drives people to ask forgiveness - whether it be from other people or god.
Originally posted by PsychoPawnGuilt is a sin for the reasons I gave already. My reaction to anything I do is subjective and doesn't change the outcome: my emotions are value-less. Guilt (and any other emotion) used as a remedy is no remedy at all.
I don't believe in god, but I do try to understand the worldview of those who do.
I contend that guilt serves a purpose just like most emotions.
I just don't know why any god would see guilt as being a "sin" - just like I wouldn't be able to see why any god would see fear as being a sin. Especially when christianity seems to hold forgiveness in such ...[text shortened]... d. Guilt is what drives people to ask forgiveness - whether it be from other people or god.
Originally posted by FreakyKBHYour reaction to anything you do is subjective, but that doesn't mean they don't have value, although I'm not sure how you mean value. It is your reaction to things that dictate your actions. Your reactions could be positive, negative or neutral - they have importance, whether you interpret that as being "value" is a different story.
Guilt is a sin for the reasons I gave already. My reaction to anything I do is subjective and doesn't change the outcome: my emotions are value-less. Guilt (and any other emotion) used as a remedy is no remedy at all.
I never suggested guilt or any emotion should or would be used as a remedy, so I'm not sure where you got that from.
Guilt is not a remedy, but it is a motivation for you to find a remedy. The lack of the feeling of guilt is the exact reason people like Ted Bundy and John Wayne Gacy went to their graves never expressing any remorse for their acts. I would say they are even more sinful for their lack of guilt.
Originally posted by PsychoPawn"Yours is not to reason why ..."
I just don't know why any god would see guilt as being a "sin" - just like I wouldn't be able to see why any god would see fear as being a sin. Especially when christianity seems to hold forgiveness in such a high regard. Guilt is what drives people to ask forgiveness - whether it be from other people or god.
Quite simply, if the Bible says it is a sin, then it is a sin. Trying to reason why God makes up his rules is a fruitless task. Your mistake is to assume that you can understand the mind of God.
Originally posted by twhiteheadI don't claim to understand the mind of god, however it is true that I'm chasing the windmill to try to get those who seem to claim to know god might know the purpose of the arbitrary rules - or at least the reasons they see for them.
Your mistake is to assume that you can understand the mind of God.
I'll get that windmill one day 😉
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Originally posted by FreakyKBHError! The default position of man is no more to believe in some supernatural god/gods than it is the default position of man to wear clothes!!! The belief in magic friends is imposed upon man by society. What supernatural entity does a 3 month old baby believe in???
So, you claim the default position of man is to have a religion.
No, I claim that the default position of man is a belief in some supernatural god/gods. Religion is how man works out his end of the relationship.