1. Cape Town
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    18 Feb '08 11:50
    I have encountered a number of theists on this site and off, who don't seem to believe in the existence of atheists.
    For example:
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    But I know it must bring you great comfort in believing such nonsense: it makes rejection of the biblical truths (and therefore, accountability to the same) that much more manageable.

    Why is it that so many Christians are convinced that Atheists like myself are somehow closet 'believers' racked with guilt? What is so hard about accepting that some people simply do not believe that God exists?
  2. Territories Unknown
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    18 Feb '08 12:331 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I have encountered a number of theists on this site and off, who don't seem to believe in the existence of atheists.
    For example:
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    But I know it must bring you great comfort in believing such nonsense: it makes rejection of the biblical truths (and therefore, accountability to the same) that much more manageable. uilt? What is so hard about accepting that some people simply do not believe that God exists?
    I would hope that your analytical abilities are better in everyday life. Where in my statement, does the word 'guilt' appear? Where in my statement does the concept of 'guilt' make itself known? Hint: nowhere.

    Perhaps this is more insight than you meant to share, but if your previous thinking (when you considered yourself a believer) was marked by guilt, then you clearly had the wrong information about God. Guilt, according to God, is a sin.
  3. Cape Town
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    18 Feb '08 13:58
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    I would hope that your analytical abilities are better in everyday life. Where in my statement, does the word 'guilt' appear? Where in my statement does the concept of 'guilt' make itself known? Hint: nowhere.
    As usual, you are trying to be misleading by making irrelevant statements. Whether or not you used the word 'guilt' is quite irrelevant to the content of my post. I did not say you used the word, nor even claim you implied it. However, it does apply quite well to the implication of your post which was that I require comfort. If not due to guilt, then why do you think I would require comfort? Please enlighten me as to what you actually meant since you deny the obvious conclusion.

    Perhaps this is more insight than you meant to share, but if your previous thinking (when you considered yourself a believer) was marked by guilt, then you clearly had the wrong information about God. Guilt, according to God, is a sin.
    Now who is reading between the lines what isn't there? What made you get the idea that I felt guilty when I was a Christian? I thought my statement was quite clear: it appears that you believe that I feel guilt about my rejection of Bible 'truths'. What that has to do with my past beliefs I cannot fathom.
  4. Standard membershavixmir
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    18 Feb '08 14:43
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I have encountered a number of theists on this site and off, who don't seem to believe in the existence of atheists.
    For example:
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    [b]But I know it must bring you great comfort in believing such nonsense: it makes rejection of the biblical truths (and therefore, accountability to the same) that much more manageable. ...[text shortened]... uilt? What is so hard about accepting that some people simply do not believe that God exists?
    Yeah, but like... I mean... who on earth actually listens to a word a theist says? I mean... they still believe in bloody gods, fairies, santa claus or god knows what.

    It's not like their opinions are any more valid than someone who thinks they are Napoleon.
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    18 Feb '08 17:161 edit
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    I would hope that your analytical abilities are better in everyday life. Where in my statement, does the word 'guilt' appear? Where in my statement does the concept of 'guilt' make itself known? Hint: nowhere.
    'Guilt' is hardly the focal point of the initial post. Any comments on the general question?
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    18 Feb '08 17:36
    They believe that because the existence of that though means they always feel they win in an argument agaisnt an atheist.
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    18 Feb '08 18:10
    It boosts morale. If you can convince yourself that nobody opposes your belief system, then that's uniform acceptance, which is reassuring.
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    18 Feb '08 19:06
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    I would hope that your analytical abilities are better in everyday life. Where in my statement, does the word 'guilt' appear? Where in my statement does the concept of 'guilt' make itself known? Hint: nowhere.

    Perhaps this is more insight than you meant to share, but if your previous thinking (when you considered yourself a believer) was marked by gu ...[text shortened]... t, then you clearly had the wrong information about God. Guilt, according to God, is a sin.
    You were obviously assessing that atheist people were simply guilty about not following God's word, and that they are just pretending not to believe in God. If you don't mean something, don't say it.
  9. Standard memberagryson
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    18 Feb '08 20:23
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    I would hope that your analytical abilities are better in everyday life. Where in my statement, does the word 'guilt' appear? Where in my statement does the concept of 'guilt' make itself known? Hint: nowhere.

    Perhaps this is more insight than you meant to share, but if your previous thinking (when you considered yourself a believer) was marked by gu ...[text shortened]... t, then you clearly had the wrong information about God. Guilt, according to God, is a sin.
    If guilt is seen by god as a sin, why are so many theists, from hindus to catholics, laboured from birth with original sins? In the case of those theists who don't believe they are born with original sin, why do they use guilt, fear and threats of eternal damnation to communicate the message? I don't mean to say that all theists use such methods, but it's certainly an incredibly common characteristic.
  10. Cape Town
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    19 Feb '08 07:52
    Interesting comments from the atheists. Do any theists have ideas on the matter? And for those theists who fit my description, do you also think that Muslims are closet Christians too? ie do Muslims need to comfort themselves after rejecting 'Biblical truths'?
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    19 Feb '08 23:55
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I have encountered a number of theists on this site and off, who don't seem to believe in the existence of atheists.
    For example:
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    [b]But I know it must bring you great comfort in believing such nonsense: it makes rejection of the biblical truths (and therefore, accountability to the same) that much more manageable. ...[text shortened]... uilt? What is so hard about accepting that some people simply do not believe that God exists?
    i believe the reverse is true. i believe there are probably many theists who really wonder why their prayers arent answered.
  12. Standard memberagryson
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    20 Feb '08 00:01
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    i believe the reverse is true. i believe there are probably many theists who really wonder why their prayers arent answered.
    The seed of doubt is needed for the tree of knowledge to grow, but then, that's the tree christians are specifically told not to eat from (and jews and muslims since they all see the old testament has coming from god unless I'm very much mistaken)
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    20 Feb '08 10:381 edit
    Originally posted by agryson
    The seed of doubt is needed for the tree of knowledge to grow, but then, that's the tree christians are specifically told not to eat from (and jews and muslims since they all see the old testament has coming from god unless I'm very much mistaken)
    You are right on that account.

    However, it should be said that the term "Tree of knowledge" in itself is an example of bad translation.

    Da'at can mean:

    1. Knowledge, information, ect.
    2. Wisdom, intellect.
    3. Opinion.
    4. Perspective.
    5. Consciousness.

    It is also related to:

    1. Intent.
    2. Sexual intercourse.
    3. Emotional status (like in "khoolshat da'at" - lit. "weakness of da'at", which means sorrow.


    Regarding the meaning of the story - there are many different perspectives on the subject form many jewish philosophers and theologists. I think it is important to clarify that the notion of "original sin" does not exist in judaism.
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    20 Feb '08 16:32
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I have encountered a number of theists on this site and off, who don't seem to believe in the existence of atheists.
    For example:
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    [b]But I know it must bring you great comfort in believing such nonsense: it makes rejection of the biblical truths (and therefore, accountability to the same) that much more manageable. ...[text shortened]... uilt? What is so hard about accepting that some people simply do not believe that God exists?
    You say you don't believe that God exists, but if you were to peel away the layers of so called "evidence" you have constructed around the heart of your existence you would know you are created. It is perfectly natural for one to deny that God exists, because we are born with a sin nature which is selfish to the core and wants nothing to do with it's maker. Acknowledging God means making oneself accountable to God, and that is just something the "self" abhors.
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    20 Feb '08 17:301 edit
    Originally posted by josephw
    You say you don't believe that God exists, but if you were to peel away the layers of so called "evidence" you have constructed around the heart of your existence you would know you are created.
    You see, this is the sort of thing he was talking about.

    I could easily say "All theists really don't believe that God exists. But they are scared of the unknown, scared of having to create their own meaning of life, and not confident enough in their judgement to be able to develop their own moral code without being told what to do by somebody in authority. So they try not to think too hard about it, and invent a 'faith' in a God, which makes them feel better".

    But I wouldn't say that (unless I was trying to wind someone up), because it's a stupid thing to say. It might even be true about some people, but it's obviously not true about everybody. I know it's not true. in the same way that you ought to know what you say is not true.

    Let's be clear about this. You are claiming to know what is in the mind of millions of people better than they do. That is astonishingly arrogant. And particularly annoying, because while we all know you are wrong, it's completely impossible to prove that. If you won't accept my witness for what I think, there is no other source I can use.

    Unless, as I said, you're trying to wind us up.
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