1. H. T. & E. hte
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    28 Jul '06 06:27
    (a) I have a basic fundamental question. If there is an Almighty or God of this vast universe, He must be one and THE only one for all creatures, all beings - whether he be muslim or christian or any other. How can He permit (or worse,instigate) one group of his followers to kill other fellow beings in His creation? But it is a fact that in the name of God or Allah , some people do kill others, with a strong conviction (belief) of being rewarded by "their" God for such acts of violence.

    (b) Does it not prove that there is , in reality , no God. People are fighting and killing for an illusory concept of God, which is their own creation? It also means that any strong group of brainwashed people, with a larger number of committed followers ready to kill or get killed , can wreak havoc on the rest of the humanity and perpetrate the atrocious dictatorship of the leadership of that group.

    (c) And if there is no God then it is perfectly fine for the victor. There is nothing wrong in torturing the victim, if there is no God, for , it is perfectly all right from the point of view of the victor. The fact that this sort of dictatorial and tortuous philosophy has been exponentially successful in the course of history, is a very strong proof of the non-existence of God. Look at history. Islamic empire has seen only one-way irreversible expansion. It works through the grip of the triumphalist philosophy that is Islam. As long as it works (from their point of view) for them no amount of logic or rationalisation on humanitarian considerations is going to convince the leaders of muslim community about the basic need of love and compassion for the entire human race, as the essential ingradient of inter-community relation-ship.

    (d) Jesus Christ's love and compassion may appeal to philosophers, not to empire builders. Even today, in day to day life common man can be better subjugated by the mediaval barbaric methods of terror - tactics. Saints can only die for the cause of love and compassion. Saints can never rule. Jesus Christ did die for love and compassion. But Prophet Mohammed did rule an ever expanding empire.

    (e) Ruling over peoples is the central idea inherent in the tenets of Islam. Though the concept of a terrorising people in the name of God, has been built around the social customs to tame the rebels, actually it is not God but the dictatorial community leaders who wreak havoc on those who dare to question their authority. Thus islam is more of a successful political philosophy, than a religeon. This rather infallible political philosophy is shrewedly wrapped up in the garb of religion in the form of God's horrifying commands claimed to have been communicated to the "prophet".

    (f) Nobody is allowed to question this, not even non-muslims. Recently a minister (obviously muslim) in the government of one of the states of India openly announced a reward of Rs. 510 million ( about $ 11 million) to anyone who can behead the Denmark cartoonist who had made a cartoon of Prophet Mohammad. In a population of 1200 million muslims around the world , there is always the the possibility of some freak zealot finding enough motivation and the chance to execute this sort of command of beheading the poor cartoonist. All in the name of Allah and Jihad.

    (g) Rarest of the rare can muster courage to raise any slightaest voice of reason to question the basic tenets of islam. All over the world , in all the countries muslims are expanding, their population is rising faster than other religious groups. As soon as muslims become a majority in any country, they declare the country an Islamic State ruled according to sharia, the islamic law. Even modern educated muslims have to ultimately surrender.

    (h) You may win intellectually, but you will not be allowed to build a society based on principles of freedom, secularism and democracy in any country where muslims are in majority. Look at what is happening in Iraq. Don't you think that , in trying to build democracy in Iraq , sooner or later US will have to beat an ignominous retreat from Iraq? Such is the grip of islamic totalitarianism.

    (i) Common muslims too are not to be blamed. They are at best helpless victims to a system , which they can't break free out of, no matter how much they wish to. They are the worst victims , for, in the words of Jesus Christ, "they know not what they are doing".

    (j) But there is yet some reason to believe that perhaps there may indeed be a God. Else how could there emerge people like Ali Sina and Taslima Nasreen from among the muslims, who have staked their life and risked livelihood for the sake of human values, for the values of love, compassion, freedom, democracy and has raised the sane voice of reason. May God ( if there be any God), give them success and fulfilment .

    (k) May the muslims all over the world be liberated from the vice like grip of evil Islam. May the muslims live free and may tyrannical Islam be gone. May a new humanitarian islam , of the true universal values, take the place of the old dictatorial islam. Every religion has some outdated belief-system. Let all religions converge to the common humanitarian values of a modern religion of today.

    (l) Some day somebody will have to fill the vacuum. You cannot hope the people to live in vacuum. If you must take away what has lost relevance, what has become stale and counter-productive, then you must also give them some positive alternative, something positive to look forward to in its place. And you must be honest. If you suggest them the alternative of Christianity, you will be immediately discredited as an agent of the expansionist Church. Some real workable alternative, which appeals to the modern mind of the common man, is the need of the hour.

    (m) Doing only first half of the job will not work. For the job of trying to liberate the victims, I think, one also has to take up the task of suggesting the positive alternative. Otherwise soon people will revert to their old cocoon of safety- for, there is safety in NOT THINKING; there is safety in NOT analysing and there is safety in treading the beaten path. This latter danger is a real and strong danger. Without an alternative, any critical analysis remains just an empty criticism.

    (n) Right now the minds of all thinking people, all over the world, are in turmoil. But I am sure an alternative will surely emerge , if there IS a God.
  2. Melbourne, Australia
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    28 Jul '06 07:15
    Originally posted by ranjan sinha
    (a) I have a basic fundamental question. If there is an Almighty or God of this vast universe, He must be one and THE only one for all creatures, all beings - whether he be muslim or christian or any other. How can He permit (or worse,instigate) one group of his followers to kill other fellow beings in His creation? But it is a fact that in the name of ...[text shortened]... , are in turmoil. But I am sure an alternative will surely emerge , if there IS a God.
    Didn't get through all of this.
    You're posting for people who want to get in there and argue or debate - you've got to be short and sharp and move on ...

    But from what I did read it sounds like you're living in the middle ages.
    Did you come to our world in a time warp?
    Welcome, time traveller.

    Ayway, for those of us who live in the 21st century, the world's not all about torture, and mayhem, and who's got the biggest dick and all that. (It is partly about that, but not all.)
    While I agree with your point about there being no god, I can't agree about this leading to a 'anything goes' mentality which is what you seem to suggest.

    Of course, I may have completely missed your point, but I gave up after the 500th paragraph. Short attention span probably - the gen Xer in me.
  3. H. T. & E. hte
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    28 Jul '06 16:55
    Originally posted by amannion
    Didn't get through all of this.
    You're posting for people who want to get in there and argue or debate - you've got to be short and sharp and move on ...

    But from what I did read it sounds like you're living in the middle ages.
    Did you come to our world in a time warp?
    Welcome, time traveller.

    Ayway, for those of us who live in the 21st century, th ...[text shortened]... I gave up after the 500th paragraph. Short attention span probably - the gen Xer in me.
    I can't disagree with you. Visit

    www.faithfreedom.org
  4. Joined
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    28 Jul '06 20:262 edits
    Originally posted by ranjan sinha
    [b](a) I have a basic fundamental question. If there is an Almighty or God of this vast universe, He must be one and THE only one for all creatures, all beings - whether he be muslim or christian or any other. How can He permit (or worse,instigate) one group of his followers to kill other fellow beings in His creation? But it is a fact that in the name of ...[text shortened]... ers, with a strong conviction (belief) of being rewarded by "their" God for such acts of violence.
    free will? ive heard this argue before.

    Edit: B= just no. C= ok, let me torture YOU.

    Edit2: im not even reading the rest its too long lol
  5. Territories Unknown
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    29 Jul '06 01:42
    Originally posted by ranjan sinha
    (a) I have a basic fundamental question. If there is an Almighty or God of this vast universe, He must be one and THE only one for all creatures, all beings - whether he be muslim or christian or any other. How can He permit (or worse,instigate) one group of his followers to kill other fellow beings in His creation? But it is a fact that in the name of ...[text shortened]... , are in turmoil. But I am sure an alternative will surely emerge , if there IS a God.
    This is the (at least) second time you've posted this same rant, verbatim. Are you trying to say something?
  6. Standard memberspiritmangr8ness
    Doh!!! Or--Are--I
    Springfield, USA
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    29 Jul '06 01:49
    Originally posted by ranjan sinha
    (a) I have a basic fundamental question. If there is an Almighty or God of this vast universe, He must be one and THE only one for all creatures, all beings - whether he be muslim or christian or any other. How can He permit (or worse,instigate) one group of his followers to kill other fellow beings in His creation? But it is a fact that in the name of ...[text shortened]... , are in turmoil. But I am sure an alternative will surely emerge , if there IS a God.
    A through N, what is your point? Can you provide a synopsis of your question? If your asking why men kill in the name of God and what is the true nature of man's inhumanity to man; that cannot be a basis for why killing, as you say is permited by a loving God.

    I hate saying this this way but "Thou shall not kill" Shall is an archaic intransitive verb, the core meaning is: wil happen in the furture or intended to happen. Since we no longer speak this way in english, the modern reference point is lost.

    It would imply that you don't deliberately kill people as part of your plan for the future. Killing people premeditatively and certainly on purpose is against the law.

    However, killing is not foreign to God, it is good for survival and restoring the balance. Having this law is like having laws against speeding or other crimes. Although you know the limit, some still have a need for speed. Maybe were're all just galactic criminals doing time here on earth. 😠
  7. SubscriberAThousandYoung
    Just another day
    tinyurl.com/y8wgt7a5
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    29 Jul '06 03:00
    Too long. Did not read.
  8. Joined
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    29 Jul '06 03:02
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Too long. Did not read.
    lol its not worth i tried.
  9. Joined
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    29 Jul '06 05:01
    Originally posted by ranjan sinha
    I can't disagree with you. Visit

    www.faithfreedom.org
    Fool, eternal fire(emphasis on fire) will be your eternal dwelling place because you lead others into eternal fire(emphasis on fire).
    There's no GOD huh?
    I'm like "YOU'RE GONNA BURN, AND I KNOW THAT JESUS WOULD HAVE TOLD YOU THE TRUTH TOO"
  10. Melbourne, Australia
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    29 Jul '06 05:17
    Originally posted by royaltystatement
    Fool, eternal fire(emphasis on fire) will be your eternal dwelling place because you lead others into eternal fire(emphasis on fire).
    There's no GOD huh?
    I'm like "YOU'RE GONNA BURN, AND I KNOW THAT JESUS WOULD HAVE TOLD YOU THE TRUTH TOO"
    Dickhead, we're over it now.
    We get that you're either:

    a. a complete relligious freak, or
    b. an annoying prick

    (or perhaps both of these),
    but you really should get over yourself.
  11. Joined
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    29 Jul '06 05:23
    Originally posted by amannion
    Dickhead, we're over it now.
    We get that you're either:

    a. a complete relligious freak, or
    b. an annoying prick

    (or perhaps both of these),
    but you really should get over yourself.
    I am not arrogant, how can I get overmyself? You get it? What do you get? Do you get the fact of eternalt fire? still you miss the fact of repentance and the chance to be in Heaven. Still I am here, wickedness is to me mocked and ridiculed, for wickedness mocks and ridiculed. You will be judged according to the standards in which you judge other. I would be pleased if GOD were to judge me as I have judged you.
  12. Joined
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    29 Jul '06 05:28
    See, I have nothing to fear, for I have been made master of even death. Me and all other believers. Yet you foolish unbelievers will be subject to death. Again I am referring to Heaven and Hell. The second death, which is eternal fire.
    Why do you think this messsage is like this, so extreme, because no message surpasses it. It is the Universal message to all human on Earth. Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at Hand.
    Do you see how time has accelerated itself? It speeds up the day of the return of Christ. Then the Church will be gone and it will be as though Jesus didn't die for your sins and the only way you will be accepted into Heaven is if you were to die for him.
    Do you see how merciful the father is? Even in the face of eternal damnation he gives us every chance and opportunity to come to him, so there is no excuse at judgement.
  13. Joined
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    29 Jul '06 05:39
    Originally posted by royaltystatement
    You will be judged according to the standards in which you judge other. I would be pleased if GOD were to judge me as I have judged you.
    so you judge very strictly? and on top of that youre not supposed to right? as scooby doo would say ruh-oh raggy! lol
  14. Joined
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    29 Jul '06 05:57
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    so you judge very strictly? and on top of that youre not supposed to right? as scooby doo would say ruh-oh raggy! lol
    I tell the truth to you according to what I interpret from your posts and the scriptures of the Bible, it is you who call it judgement, I can't cast you into Hell, that is judgement, I'm just trying to warn you.
    Scooby-doo, nice touch.😉
  15. Melbourne, Australia
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    29 Jul '06 06:11
    Originally posted by royaltystatement
    I am not arrogant, how can I get overmyself? You get it? What do you get? Do you get the fact of eternalt fire? still you miss the fact of repentance and the chance to be in Heaven. Still I am here, wickedness is to me mocked and ridiculed, for wickedness mocks and ridiculed. You will be judged according to the standards in which you judge other. I would be pleased if GOD were to judge me as I have judged you.
    I get that you're an idiot.
    Do I get the fact of eternal fire?
    No, idiot, I'm an atheist - if I got any of the crap you keep spouting I wouldn't be an atheist now would I?

    I would be pleased if someone judged you pretty quickly.

    As for me being judged?
    Sorry bud, we judge only ourselves, no one else has that problem. My life will be judged by my deeds and the way I treat others - which, apart from the odd outburst when confronted with stupidity (ergo, you), I've worked at pretty well. I treat others in the same way Jesus suggested - as you would want to be treated. And if I was anything like you, I'd want to be treated very harshly, hence my posts.
    But for anyone else, I'm good.
    When all is said and done, what else can you do?
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