The futile "faith vs. works" debate

@kellyjay said
God is working on justifying His church, His bride to be. It isn't the Bride of Christ that as moved away from Jesus, its you as you attack it. Your Jesus, is He alive today? What does your faith say?

Yet another false doctrine. Where does the bible say that His church is His bride to be?

The followers of Christ ie the ones who follow the commandments, the sheep of Matt 25 who are welcomed into the Kingdom of God are the body of Christ. Nowhere in the bible refers to these as the bride of Christ.

Add this to the list of other false church doctrines
- all nonChristians will be tormented for eternity
- the soul is eternal and cannot be destroyed
- only since Jesus came can people do good works.
- mouth worship [professions of faith ] is the way to the Kingdom of God

@rajk999 said
Yet another false doctrine. Where does the bible say that His church is His bride to be?

The followers of Christ ie the ones who follow the commandments, the sheep of Matt 25 who are welcomed into the Kingdom of God are the body of Christ. Nowhere in the bible refers to these as the bride of Christ.

Add this to the list of other false church doctrines
- all nonChristia ...[text shortened]... can people do good works.
- mouth worship [professions of faith ] is the way to the Kingdom of God

Instead of attacking God's church you should be doing that you are supposed to do which is love it and those in it. Attacking what is special to God isn't going to go well for you.

Acts 20:28
Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.

@rajk999 said
Yet another false doctrine. Where does the bible say that His church is His bride to be?

The followers of Christ ie the ones who follow the commandments, the sheep of Matt 25 who are welcomed into the Kingdom of God are the body of Christ. Nowhere in the bible refers to these as the bride of Christ.

Add this to the list of other false church doctrines
- all nonChristia ...[text shortened]... can people do good works.
- mouth worship [professions of faith ] is the way to the Kingdom of God

Why don't you try actually quoting people who say the things you are spouting instead of creating a list of made up things like your "mouth worship" garbage.

@kellyjay said
Instead of attacking God's church you should be doing that you are supposed to do which is love it and those in it. Attacking what is special to God isn't going to go well for you.

Acts 20:28
Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.

I am not attacking Gods church at all. If you think you are in Gods church you are seriously deluded. I am attacking YOU and YOUR CHURCH. i am attacking YOUR false doctrines which Jesus did not preach.

Gods church are all the people like the Good Samaritans of the world, like the sheep listed in Matt 25, and these here.

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
(Matthew 5:3-10 KJV)

These are Gods church and these types of people are special to God because they help Christ, pick up Christ, visit Christ, feed Christ etc etc.

... Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. (Matthew 25:40 KJV)

Mouth worshipers and preachers of mouth worship like you are not special to God. Your type is the type that is the stubble, and the chaff, the goats, fit to be burned and destroyed. Why? Because you draw people away from good works and righteous living by promoting professions with your mouth and nothing else is required. Your doctrine is the road to damnation.

@rajk999 said
I am not attaching Gods church at all. If you think you are in Gods church you are seriously deluded. I am attacking YOU and YOUR CHURCH. i am attacking YOUR false doctrines which Jesus did not preach.

Gods church are all the people like the Good Samaritans of the world, like the sheep listed in Matt 25, and these here.

[i]Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is ...[text shortened]... ng professions with your mouth and nothing else is required. Your doctrine is the road to damnation.

Well that is between you and the Lord not you and me.

@kellyjay said
God is working on justifying His church, His bride to be. It isn't the Bride of Christ that as moved away from Jesus, its you as you attack it. Your Jesus, is He alive today? What does your faith say?

The bottom line is that underlying concepts that serve as the foundation for Christianity are almost the antithesis of what Jesus preached. A very self-serving foundation that is becoming increasingly self-serving as time passes.

Speaking of yourself and those who share your beliefs as "the Bride of Christ" does nothing to change that. It's a way for you to feel good about yourselves despite the fact that the foundation for Christianity is self-serving and almost the antithesis of what Jesus preached. It is not unlike how another group deemed themselves righteous even though they were only outwardly so. They called themselves "Pharisees".

@thinkofone said
The bottom line is that underlying concepts that serve as the foundation for Christianity are almost the antithesis of what Jesus preached. A very self-serving foundation that is becoming increasingly self-serving as time passes.

Speaking of yourself and those who share your beliefs as "the Bride of Christ" does nothing to change that. It's a way for you to feel good ...[text shortened]... is not unlike how the Pharisees deemed themselves righteous even though they were only outwardly so.

They were counting on their own righteousness not the forgiveness from Christ. So those who compare themselves to others are not wise, we sin against God each time we do so it is God who has to forgive us. We repent and confess our sins to Him turning our lives over to Him making Him Lord. He is both savior and judge we have nothing to brag about before God! We cannot earn His forgiveness!

Forgiveness even among us has to be given by the one wronged. If it is never offered it cannot be forced or paid off.

@kellyjay said
They were counting on their own righteousness not the forgiveness from Christ. So those who compare themselves to others are not wise, we sin against God each time we do so it is God who has to forgive us. We repent and confess our sins to Him turning our lives over to Him making Him Lord. He is both savior and judge we have nothing to brag about before God! We cannot earn H ...[text shortened]... among us has to be given by the one wronged. If it is never offered it cannot be forced or paid off.

The bottom line is that underlying concepts that serve as the foundation for Christianity are almost the antithesis of what Jesus preached. A very self-serving foundation that is becoming increasingly self-serving as time passes.

Making a reference to one of the underlying concepts that serve as the foundation for Christianity which is almost the antithesis of the gospel that Jesus preached during His ministry doesn't at all help your case. It doesn't make logical sense for anyone to think that it would.

'Antithesis' appears to be the new word of the day.

@kellyjay said
It is a matter of what we do and why.
Are you doing good works to earn something, or are you doing them because it is out of the motivation of the heart. If it for a reward you are attempting to earn something, if it is the motivation of the heart it is because your heart is properly guided by love to do right by the needs around you.

Those that want to earn their way in ...[text shortened]... d’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

How do you account for the righteousness in atheists (or practitioners of other religions) who's good works come from the heart and not in an attempt to earn anything? (Take, for example, running into a burning building to save the life of a stranger or doing charity work).

@ghost-of-a-duke said
How do you account for the righteousness in atheists (or practitioners of other religions) who's good works come from the heart and not in an attempt to earn anything? (Take, for example, running into a burning building to save the life of a stranger or doing charity work).

We were all created in God's image. I told you once before that is why we can love, and it is also why we can do good works. This however is not enough. it only shows we are capable, just not able to live out good lives by God's standards. Our standards are comparing ourselves by ourselves which is what you are doing here. If all we are doing is grading one sinful person by looking at another then saying I'm not that bad doesn't grasp a real good or a real just life.

The religious people are not thought of as better than atheist by God's standards, we are all guilty. I'd be willing to say some Atheist are much better people than many religious ones, but if the whole is bad what does that matter? Religion can show us what is good, but it doesn't make us good that is a heart matter. Religion can also mask evil much more effectively too, because what is in the heart isn't always clearly seen as people act in the dark hiding who they really are by not showing themselves for people to see.

We need a change from the inside out, a born again experience and the follow through for the rest of our lives overcoming evil.

@kellyjay said
We were all created in God's image. I told you once before that is why we can love, and it is also why we can do good works. This however is not enough. it only shows we are capable, just not able to live out good lives by God's standards. Our standards are comparing ourselves by ourselves which is what you are doing here. If all we are doing is grading one sinful person by ...[text shortened]... nside out, a born again experience and the follow through for the rest of our lives overcoming evil.

The God I believe in sent His Son Jesus Christ to die for the sins of mankind. He was also sent to preach and to move people away from sin and towards good works and righteousness. Keeping the commandments is the way to good works and righteousness. Professions of faith are nothing and worthless if the commandments are not followed and kept. Keeping of the commandments leads to eternal life in the Kingdom of God as Jesus clearly said:

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
(Matthew 5:3-10 KJV)

Your church doctrine does not follow Christ and is a failure.

The God you believe in is a God that will torture for eternity a good and righteous man who lived a life of good works because he did not profess to know anything. All he did was live in peace, he helped the poor, he fed the hungry. He knew no church neither did he worship with his mouth.. Your God [not mine] rewards mouth worshipers with eternal life even though they have lived evil and sinful lives. They were selfish, greedy, sexually perverted, liars and gluttonous. This is your God

@rajk999 said
The God I believe in sent His Son Jesus Christ to die for the sins of mankind. He was also sent to preach and to move people away from sin and towards good works and righteousness. Keeping the commandments is the way to good works and righteousness. Professions of faith are nothing and worthless if the commandments are not followed and kept. Keeping of the commandments lead ...[text shortened]... lives. They were selfish, greedy, sexually perverted, liars and gluttonous. This is your God

My God is the God of my salvation who took my sins upon Himself to save me. He did this due to His love for us, while we were yet sinners He died for us. He then tells us to abide in Him, and He in us.

So it is not good works, or God’s grace and mercy it is both!

@rajk999 said
The God I believe in sent His Son Jesus Christ to die for the sins of mankind. He was also sent to preach and to move people away from sin and towards good works and righteousness. Keeping the commandments is the way to good works and righteousness. Professions of faith are nothing and worthless if the commandments are not followed and kept. Keeping of the commandments lead ...[text shortened]... lives. They were selfish, greedy, sexually perverted, liars and gluttonous. This is your God

What God calls good and what we do are two different things!

@kellyjay said
My God is the God of my salvation who took my sins upon Himself to save me. He did this due to His love for us, while we were yet sinners He died for us. He then tells us to abide in Him, and He in us.

So it is not good works, or God’s grace and mercy it is both!

This what you said continues to be mouth worship and it leads to damnation.
Jesus said good works and righteousness leads to eternal life

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
(Matthew 5:3-10 KJV)

Read it again. Jesus said that. Nowhere in that Sermon on the Mount where many thousands listened, understood and believed did Jesus say any such foolishness like your church doctrine. These people who listened, believed and kept Jesus's commandments will get eternal life. Mouth worshipers, who do not understand Christ commandments and who are too lazy to do it and who just talk about what they believe are going to be cast out.