The futile "faith vs. works" debate

@kellyjay said
What God calls good and what we do are two different things!

You are speaking like a man who has no Holy Spirit.
So speak for yourself.

@rajk999 said
You are speaking like a man who has no Holy Spirit.
So speak for yourself.

How would you know?

@rajk999 said
This what you said continues to be mouth worship and it leads to damnation.
Jesus said good works and righteousness leads to eternal life

[i]Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after ...[text shortened]... ts and who are too lazy to do it and who just talk about what they believe are going to be cast out.

Your made up word is meaningless.

@Rajk999

Yet another false doctrine. Where does the bible say that His church is His bride to be?

John 3:29, Ephesians 5, Revelation 19,21,22.

Your depth of New Testament ignorance has been underestimated.

@sonship said
@Rajk999

Yet another false doctrine. Where does the bible say that His church is His bride to be?

John 3:29, Ephesians 5, Revelation 19,21,22.

Your depth of New Testament ignorance has been underestimated.

You are a shameless dunce. You cannot find one single passage to support your false doctrine. Here is one to support mine:

Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. (1 Corinthians 12:27 KJV)

YE [THE CHURCH] IS THE BODY OF CHRIST. NOT THE BRIDE

There is no passage that supports the idea that the church is the bride of Christ.

Now for the passages you quote :
- Your Revelation passage states clearly that the bride of Christ is the New Jerusalem. not the church
- Your Eph 5 chapter has nothing about that.
- Here is the John 3 passage :
He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. (John 3:29 KJV)

This John 3 passage is about the Kingdom of God. John says that the bridegroom [Christ] has the bride [[the Kingdom of God or the New Jerusalem]. The church is NOT THE BRIDE. John speaks of the FRIEND OF THE BRIDEGROOM, who rejoice with the arrival of Christ. These are the followers and disciples of Christ. Jesus also several times referred to his followers as FRIENDS. This is the church. The church is the body, the church is the friend of Christ, the church are Christ's brothers. The church are sons of God. [B] THE CHURCH IS NOT THE BRIDE[/E]

The bride is the Kingdom of God. The bride is the New Jerusalem

Further confirmation of this are to be found in the parables of Christ. A man has as wedding feast for his son and invites people to the wedding feast.
The man = God
The bridegroom = Christ
The bride = the Kingdom of God / New Jerusalem
The invitees = the people, the church, the faithful followers.
The ones not invited are the sinful and evil.
God here invites people [the church], to witness the marriage of His Son Jesus to the Kingdom of God, which is the bride

Attempting to liken the New Jeruslaem to the church, which is what you will do next is more nonsense

@kellyjay said
Your made up word is meaningless.

I quoted Christ. If you call that made up then we have nothing in common.

@rajk999 said
I quoted Christ. If you call that made up then we have nothing in common.

You quote but don’t take it all into account and when your confronted with your contradictions you simply blow them off as not important. Anyone can quote scripture but to rightly divide it is another story.

@Rajk999

John 3:29, Ephesians 5, Revelation 19,21,22.

You know nothing.

@whodey said
So what motivates people?

According to Machiavelli it is love and fear, and decided that fear was the best motivator.

I disagree. Why leave out love? The healthy approach to God is love. What do we do for someone we love? We try to please them. They are the focus and despite being put out on occasion, we are happy to do so if it pleases the one we love. As Christi ...[text shortened]... ound that this is the correct mind set to have as a person of faith. All others are very unhealthy.

Are you sure Machiavelli dismissed love as a motivator? "best" does not equal "only".

I thought God said that the "fear of the LORD was the beginning of all wisdom"?

Other than that, I have no issue with doing good things to show love, and avoiding wrongdoing out of a healthy fear of consequences.

@bigdoggproblem said
Are you sure Machiavelli dismissed love as a motivator? "best" does not equal "only".

I thought God said that the "fear of the LORD was the beginning of all wisdom"?

Other than that, I have no issue with doing good things to show love, and avoiding wrongdoing out of a healthy fear of consequences.

Fear and love may be good motivators but I'd have to say fear is the cheap means to go from A to Z. Fear might cause you to act to protect your life, while love could cause you to lay down your life. Both have merit, but I think love is by far the better of the two.

@rajk999 said
For me faith must be a sincere belief which leads to following what Jesus said to do. Otherwise it is not a living faith, but dead and useless.

Here's the thing, though.

A "salvation by faith" er could claim exactly the same thing. And be exactly the same place as you are.

@bigdoggproblem said
Here's the thing, though.

A "salvation by faith" er could claim exactly the same thing. And be exactly the same place as you are.

Of course. I have no argument with faith. My beef is with faith and then a life of wilfully doing nothing else. Some churches preach that it is an insult to Christ work on the cross to do good works

@rajk999 said
Of course. I have no argument with faith. My beef is with faith and then a life of wilfully doing nothing else. Some churches preach that it is an insult to Christ work on the cross to do good works

Can you show one quote where that is said?

@kellyjay said
Fear and love may be good motivators but I'd have to say fear is the cheap means to go from A to Z. Fear might cause you to act to protect your life, while love could cause you to lay down your life. Both have merit, but I think love is by far the better of the two.

"Better" is strong word.

When my rival tribesmen is [I]en route[/¡] to plug my arse with a spear, "fear" is the appropriate motivator .

@bigdoggproblem said
"Better" is strong word.

When my rival tribesmen is [I]en route[/¡] to plug my arse with a spear, "fear" is the appropriate motivator .

Yes, I agree and if there is something about that rival tribesmen that has you willing to lay down your life for him due to love for your enemies, that love is a stronger motivator than the natural fear of losing one's life, or at least the ability to sit down for a week. 🙂