Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Ron, this information may be of interest: Thread 162638
"Kelly, here are a few paragraphs from a recent thread which focus on Genesis 1:1 [Chaos Gap] Genesis 1:2. Hope it helps.
"Before time and the universe existed, the eternal triune God who has no beginning or end chose to create a large host of rational angelic creatures who woul ...[text shortened]... trial, sentence, appeal and the role of human volition."
(Page 4) Thread 161838
Yes I know about that thread. Here is a composite of my comments from that thread:
Verse one is a general statement declaring when God created the physical heavens and the earth. Verse two begins providing some details of that creation. This beginning obviously does not include the spiritual heaven where God resides with His spirit creature that are sometimes referred to as angels (messengers). It is the spiritual world that is not fully revealed in Genesis 1, for the purpose of Genesis 1 was to reveal the physical world's beginning.
You can find different translation of this verse here:
While you are there on the biblehub, look up at the heading and click on "Interlinear" and then you will see the Hebrew written from right to left with a translation in English under each Hebrew word. You should notice that the first Hebrew word on the right consists of five letters and is translated in English as "And the Earth" and the first letter on the right of that Hebrew word looks something like a walking cane. That prefix letter is called a vav and is used as a copulative conjunction to connect words, sentences, or related ideas. But it does not always have to be translated as "and" as is shown in the KJV.
Now click on the left blue arrow beside Genesis 1:2. This will take you back to the interlinear of Genesis 1:1. Notice the three letter Hebrew word that is tranlated "and" there. It is the Hebrew word that begins on the right with the vav letter that looks like a walking cane. That three letter Hebrew word translated "and" is not in Genesis 1:2.
Do you get my point that just because the King James translator translated the vav as "and" instead of using a different conjunctive word, it does not mean that it is describing something in chronological order, but only that there is some relationship with something written before.
I just so happen to have a Septuagint verison of the Old Testament in Greek with an English translation. Here is the whole translation in English:
In the beginning God made the heavens and the earth. But the earth was unsightly and unfinished, and darkness was over the water. And the Spirit of God moved over the water.
Notice that the earth is unfinished in the Greek Septuagint version.
We know that from Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:5 there was a one day period consisting of an evening and a morning, so the time from the beginning until the earth was formless, void, and dark under the cover of water was probably less than 12 hours of that day.
Lucifer, the Anointed Cherub, was part of the spiritual creation in the spiritual heaven. The iniquity that was found in Him probably refers to when he sinned by tempting Eve to disobey God. We are not told when he was created, but I would guess it was before the creation of the physical world because we are told that the angels witnessed the creation of the earth.
Genesis 1:2 just indicated that the earth was not finished and ready for habitation immediately, but light had to be made available and the land needed to appear out of the water that covered the earth. God allowed additional days for this to be completed before it could be considered a good creation.
It is the spiritual world that is not fully revealed in Genesis 1, for the purpose of Genesis 1 was to reveal the physical world's beginning.
The water was part of the creation process, since the Holy Bible reveals that the world in the beginning was made out of the water. But at the time of Noah's flood the water was used to temporarily destroy it, because some angels had left their former state and corrupted man on earth.
There was no need to destroy the physical earth in the beginning because at that time the angels, being good spirit creatures, inhabited the spiritual heaven.
I don't see any evidence that there was a rebellion of any angels before the creation of the earth and of Adam and Eve.
while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?
(Job 38:7 NIV)
The morning stars does not refer to the physical stars created on the fourth day. These are believed to be special spirit creatures, like Lucifer.
The creation of the earth was obviously welcomed by ALL the angels. Lucifer, a.k.a. Satan may not have been happy that man was given dominion over the earth instead of him, but that came later.
Satan was not kicked out of heaven before Adam or before Job because he was still able to come before God in heaven along with the other angels during the time of Job. So I am certainly not saying God disposed of Satan by throwing him into the Garden of Eden.
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. The LORD said to Satan, "From where do you come?" Then Satan answered the LORD and said, "From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it."...
Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the LORD. The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Then Satan answered the LORD and said, "From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it." The LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man fearing God and turning away from evil. And he still holds fast his integrity, although you incited Me against him to ruin him without cause."...
(Job 1:6-7; 2:1-3 NASB)
Yes, I do believe Satan deceived Eve before any of the other angels were deceived.