Originally posted by RJHinds
Genesis 3 is concerned with the temptation of mankind on the physical earth. This is not a scene from the the spiritual heaven where God and His spirit creatures dwell, including the Anointed Cherub.
I understand that.
The things spoken of in
isaiah 14 and
Ezekiel 28 are backround history to Satan's presence in the garden which man was suppose to guard. They are not concurrent with but preceding to the events of Genesis 3.
Let's not lose sight of the issue. Adam and Eve most assuredly, were not the first beings deceived by Satan. Nor was the unrighteousness of his temptation with lies the FIRST of his offenses.
Making the events of his fall in
Isaiah and
Ezekiel events after his seducing of Adam and Eve, makes less sense.
The angels were more powerful and likely more intelligent. If not God would not say that He made man
"a little LOWER than the angels" . So I don't believe that higher angels witnessed the deception and tragedy of Adam and Eve's disobedience and subsequently followed the human lead to also follow Satan.
It happened the other way around.
God patterned the the physical Garden of Eden on earth to a spiritual one that was in heaven. So all you are referring to about the Anointed Cherub are not physical and would not be in Chapter three which is a scene on the physical earth.
The physics or physicality of the matter I will not say overmuch about. The TIME sequence is the heavenly rebellion FIRST. They were not concurrent. I do not believe the heavenly rebellion was a slapstick like accelerated matter that occurred within six days.
I do not believe the heavenly rebellion comes AFTER the serpent is seen in Genesis 3 or in any way concurrent with the events of Genesis 3. And I do not imagine a gap of time needed between the end of the sixth day and chapter 3 in which to insert the fall of the Daystar.
The interval or gap in which the creation, anointing, and fall of this Daystar is before the earth was waste and void. And now we are just repeating to each other.
One economy ran its course and FAILED. And a new economy God initiated. They were not concurrent so that the Daystar had his legitimate throne while God appoints man as his deputy authority over His creation.
When the new deputy authority made of dust arrives, the old failed and discorded deputy authority is already seething with resentment, scheming, revenge, and adversarial motives to wreck all God has planned with this "NEW" creature. This new puny dusty creature man, though, will be the means by which Satan finally goes to the eternal damnation prepared for the devil and his angels.
Man was created, in a real sense, as God's executioner. And this I will develop in another post. To GUARD the garden implies a lot.
You must not forget that Ezekiel is a prophet and is relating prophetic visions,
I am not sure why you think I am "forgetting" that these are prophetic visions. They, as I said, included instances of what we might call "the prophetic past."
The
"LAMENTATION" is of the tragic fall of one creature who was once the highest and wisest, most beautiful and wisest. Though now we do not lament Satan there was conceivably a time when such a great FALL from dignity was lamentable.
so you must not look at it as being all literally physical. Remember that God's throne is in the third heaven (the spiritual heaven) and Lucifer wishes to be like God and have his own throne in heaven.
What is communicated to us is that -
1.) this enemy, this serpent is ALSO a creation of God.
2.) this enemy, talks. But more amazing then his speaking (for no animals speak as far as we know) are the things being spoken.
In other words, it is less important that a non-human creature is found talking then that WHAT is being SAID is so momentous. And that is to cause man to question God's heart, God's motive, and God's truthfulness.
The physicality of the story may cause us to speculate on some unknowns. What is communicated is that a creation, more subtle, was there opposing God and man. The details of his origin can wait until latter in the revelation of Scripture.
Adam failed to GUARD. And the fall of mankind and his dominion commenced. That is the point to grasp immediately.
What has the highest priority with you is that there be no million years or no billion years. Fine. What takes higher priority to me is that the enemy of Christ and the church be exposed as to his tactics, his motives, his ancient history.
In my opinion your presentation obscures this because you count the most destructive thing ever to assault the Christian church is Darwin.
Darwin and the obscuring of the creation of man, blurring him with lower animals, is indeed a problem. But not to see the reason for man's creation to coordinate to destroy this ancient foe of God, is even more important.
"Let them have dominion over ..." if read between the lines and in the light of the rest of the Bible signals the execution of God's enemy.
If men do not know this, Satan knew it and struck preemptively.
What do you think Adam would have said if instead he went back to God and said - " God, my Creator, what in the world is this lying subtle serpent doing here in your Eden? Please immediately remove this enemy."
Satan, at Adam's petition, would have gone to his eternal punishment
"prepared for the devil and his angels".
Ezekiel's prophetic vision mixes physical aspects with spiritual in relating to the physical King of Tyre and the spiritual Anointed Cherub. God is indirectly addressing the Anointed Cherub Lucifer through this prophecy of the fall of the King of Tyre. But here the unfallen state of Lucifer is seen.
Of course BEHIND every earthly despot lurks the ORIGINAL despot Satan. G.H. Pember knew history very well. He says that a prince of Tyre was known in history but no king of Tyre was known.
Following your logic is difficult and rather convoluted. I suppose you are still saying that this passage refers to the temptation of Eve from the Devil -
"You were perfect in your ways from the day that you were created, until unrighteousness was found you." (v.15)
Well, we are told that this being
"corrupted [his] wisdom". Now Genesis 3 said that this serpent was MORE SUBTLE. It does not say that he was MORE WISE. I submit then that by this time in Genesis 3, his wisdom had already been corrupted to be SUBTLETY.
He was more subtle because the perfect wisdom with which he was created long before had long sense been corrupted.
PS you do not have to give me your smug moniker and a HahleluJah to signal you are confident in what you teach. I know that already without these little gimmicks.