Originally posted by sonshipI told you that answering thes questions does not make sense because you are saking them based on the wrong premise or assumption. However, without going int great detail I will attempt to answer them.
When you're not responsive to my questions it doesn't encourage me to play along with your questions. Some mutual reciprocation is expected.
The things spoken through the prophet Ezekiel are for the people of God - both of the old covenant and new covenant.
1.) WHY would Yahweh appoint a Gentile king of a idol worshipping nation to be the Anointed Cherub covering Israel's ark of the covenant ?
I didn't know that God did that.
2.) Do you believe that the king of Tyre was perfect in his ways from the day he was created (See Ezek. 28:15) ?
Yes, If the Lord says so, then who am I to say otherwise.
3.) Do you believe the Antichrist is set by God to be the anointed cherub covering the ark of the covenant of Israel ?
No, that is not what I believe.
4.) Do you believe the coming Antichrist was "perfect" in his ways from the day he was created ?
I am not a prophet of the future and have no belief one way or the other about how perfect he will be.
5.) When was the king of Tyre in Eden the garden of God ?
I don't know.
6.) When was or WILL the coming Antichrist be in Eden the garden of God ?
I don't know
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Originally posted by RJHinds
I told you that answering thes questions does not make sense because you are saking them based on the wrong premise or assumption. However, without going int great detail I will attempt to answer them.
1.) WHY would Yahweh appoint a Gentile king of a idol worshipping nation to be the Anointed Cherub covering Israel's ark of the covenant ?
I didn't know that God did that.
It should not be difficult from Gill's commentary to see why I ask this question.
Both Gill and my Recovery Version supply as a logical possibility that "the Ark" - as in "Ark of the Covenant" is what the prophet meant in verse 14.
"You were the anointed cherub who covered [the Ark] ; indeed I set you, ..."
The thing to notice here is that it is God who SET the anointed cherub as the covering one. When I ask why this dignity should be ordained for the Gentile king of Tyre, to be the covering cherub, a better interpretation is to an angelic being rather than a Gentile king.
2.) Do you believe that the king of Tyre was perfect in his ways from the day he was created (See Ezek. 28:15) ?
Yes, If the Lord says so, then who am I to say otherwise.
Now this is peculiar to me. You want me to jump astutely to attention and accept that through one man, Adam, sin and death came into the world and that all descendents of Adam are subject to sin and death. Yet you are willing to believe that a descendent of Adam was perfect in his ways from the day he was created.
Now, perfect in his ways from the day he was created, would be appropriate to an angelic being. Satan was an angelic being. Human beings were conceived in sin (Psalm 51:5) -
"Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity; And in sin did my mother conceive me."
So it seems that Romans 12 about sin coming into the world through one man Adam, is good for proving that there could be no sin and death before Adam, yet it is not good for believing that NO human being besides Jesus, was perfect in his ways from the day he was created.
The wicked go astray from the womb - (Psalm 58:3). The king of Tyre is no exception. Perfect in his ways from the day of creation should refer to an angelic and heavenly creature.
3.) Do you believe the Antichrist is set by God to be the anointed cherub covering the ark of the covenant of Israel ?
No, that is not what I believe.
Neither do I. So while there is some ground that the prophecy may include some words referring to Satan's Antichrist in the verses 18, for example -
"... Therefore I snet forth fire from your midst; it consumed you, and I reduced you to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all those who look at you." (v.18)
being the anointed cherub who covers [the Ark of the Covenant] should not mean Antichrist the man. The Ark of the Covenant in Heaven is seen in Revelation 11:19 and the Antichrist is nowhere acting as a covering cherub on it.
"And the temple of God which is in heaven was opened, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple; and there were lightnings and voices and thunders and an earthquake and great hail." (Rev. 11:18)
4.) Do you believe the coming Antichrist was "perfect" in his ways from the day he was created ?
I am not a prophet of the future and have no belief one way or the other about how perfect he will be.
I am pretty sure that we can rest assured that beside Jesus Christ no human being since Adam was perfect in his ways from the time he was created / born / conceived or what have you?
Now, the Antichrist as the covering Cherub over the ark is out of the question, I think.
What about Satan sometime being that covering cherub yet AFTER the fall of Adam? This makes little sense. Though the Anointed Cherub did become Satan it was after some previous glorious time as one stationed close to God in glory.
Any nearness to God as a possible cherub of glory cannot be after he appears lying and slandering the God whose glory he is suppose to be covering in Genesis 3. It is not necessary to be hyper literal. It is only necessary to see if the symbolism adds up and makes sense.
Therefore I submit that any time the angelic cherub associated with God's glory in a positive way, and SET as such by God, had to be in a pre-adamic time.
There are other reasons why the anointed cherub having this topmost glorious station do not make sense during the week lf Genesis 1 makes less sense, which I will not go into in this post.
5.) When was the king of Tyre in Eden the garden of God ?
I don't know.
I do not know either.
6.) When was or WILL the coming Antichrist be in Eden the garden of God ?
I don't know
For sure, the earth will not be any garden of Eden during the reigning of the Antichrist. Rather it will be unfit for human habitation. By that time the earth will be no longer a fit place for humans to live.
I think Mr. Pember's exposition on Ezekiel 28 is better than Gill's commentary in this instance.
Originally posted by sonshipI warned you in the beiginning that by you assuming a wrong premise it would lead you to a wrong conclusion from my answers to those questions. 😏
[quote] I told you that answering thes questions does not make sense because you are saking them based on the wrong premise or assumption. However, without going int great detail I will attempt to answer them.
1.) WHY would Yahweh appoint a Gentile king of a idol worshipping nation to be the Anointed Cherub covering Israel's ark of the covenant ?
[b] I di ...[text shortened]... Mr. Pember's exposition on [b]Ezekiel 28 is better than Gill's commentary in this instance.[/b]
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Originally posted by RJHindsThis appears as obfuscation to me.
I warned you in the beiginning that by you assuming a wrong premise it would lead you to a wrong conclusion from my answers to those questions. 😏
Short, concise, obfuscation.
The allegories should be examined for interpretation and whether a proposed interpretation of anallegory makes as much sense as another interpretation.
Originally posted by sonshipI told you that I used the wrong word:
This appears as obfuscation to me.
Short, concise, obfuscation.
The allegories should be examined for interpretation and whether a proposed interpretation of anallegory makes as much sense as another interpretation.
I couldn't think of the right word at the time and instead of my saying it is an analogy, I really meant it was a metaphor, a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance, as in “A mighty fortress is our God.”.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/metaphor
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Pharaoh is also described in Garden of Eden metaphors in Ezekiel 31.
In the eleventh year, in the third month, on the first of the month, the word of the Lord came to me saying, “Son of man, say to Pharaoh king of Egypt and to his hordes,
‘Whom are you like in your greatness?
‘Behold, Assyria was a cedar in Lebanon
With beautiful branches and forest shade,
And very high,
And its top was among the clouds.
‘I made it beautiful with the multitude of its branches,
And all the trees of Eden, which were in the garden of God, were jealous of it.
“To which among the trees of Eden are you thus equal in glory and greatness? Yet you will be brought down with the trees of Eden to the earth beneath; you will lie in the midst of the uncircumcised, with those who were slain by the sword. So is Pharaoh and all his hordes!”’ declares the Lord God.”
(Ezekiel 28:1-3, 9, 18 NASB)
Ezekiel 28:1 "say to the leader of Tyre" At this time the leader of Tyre was Ittobaal, who had been the High Priest of Astarte and who assassinated the heir of Hiram I. Hiram's daughter was Jezebel, who was married to Ahab, king of Israel. Sennacherib appointed a later descendant, Ittobaal II (also known as Ethbaal II and Ithobalus II), king of Tyre (590-543 b.c.).
Tyre was the capital of the Phoenician empire. Tyrians were extremely arrogant because of their commercial prowess and their kings claimed to be descendants of the gods. This was also the claim of the Pharaohs of Egypt.
Ezekiel 28:2 "I am a god," This possibly reflects the kings of Tyre's (esp. Ittbaal II) claims that they were part god, like Hercules. Tyre's chief deity, Melqart (i.e., "king of the city" ) was called the Tyrian Hercules.
"I sit in the seats of the gods in the heart of the seas," A reference to Poseidon or Neptune.
"Yet you are a man and not God," This refers to the political leader of Tyre as representative of the whole nation. This would not fit Satan at all!
Ezekiel 28:13-15 “You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
On the day that you were created
They were prepared.
You were the anointed cherub who covers,
And I placed you there.
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
You were blameless in your ways
From the day you were created
Until unrighteousness was found in you."
This refers to the paradise setting of his Kingdom when he ascended to the throne. He was a perfect king in the beginning (as was Adam in Eden) before being corrupted by his pride, authority, power, and wealth. Anointed kings should be to their subjects as anointed cherubim, that cover them with the wings of their power. The city and the king's advancement was from the Lord: I have placed you there. He thought himself as able to guard his city from all invaders as the angels that guarded the Garden of Eden. He appeared in as much splendour as the high priest when he was clothed with his garments for glory and beauty.
There is no hint in this narrative of a “fall of Satan,” or a “gap” between Genesis 1:1 and verse 2.
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Originally posted by RJHindsDoes the metaphor usage in Ezekiel 31 make Satan's ancient origins and past a bad interpretation in Ezekiel 28:13-18? I will probably need more than a couple of posts to respond with No.
RJ:
Pharaoh is also described in Garden of Eden metaphors in Ezekiel 31.
True basically.
The beauty of trees is used in the metaphor to speak of the worldly greatness of certain kingdoms under God's judgment.
Indeed Assyria was a cedar in Lebanon with beautiful branches and forest shade ...
The whole kingdom of Assyria is described metaphorically by a tall and beautiful "cedar in Lebanon". Not just Pharaoh, but "Pharaoh, the king of Egypt, and ... his multitude" meaning the whole of the kingdom of Egypt is being compared to Assyria.
As the rest of the verses from v.3 through v.9 speak of Assyria we see the trees of Eden being brought up to make the metaphor of beautiful trees as strong as possible. For the Jews understood that in Eden God "made to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight ..." (Gen. 2:3)
The metaphor is that Assyria was so beautiful (in worldly terms of material riches, etc.) that the most pleasant to the sight trees of Eden are envious.
Thus it was beautiful in its greatness, In the length of its branches ... Cedars in the garden of God could not hide it, Cypresses could not compare to its boughs, And plane trees could not equal its branches,
No tree in the garden of God could compare to it in its beauty. I made it beautiful by the multitude of its branches, So that all the trees of Eden, Which were in the garden of God, envied it.
So far the splendid cedars of Lebanon are hardly enough to describe how beautiful in worldly and material terms was Assyria. The metaphor is amplified by mentioning the cedars in Eden the garden of God.
Starting with verse 10, the rebuke to Pharoah king of Egypt and his multitude, ie. kingdom of Egypt, is spoken to, as another tall "tree" like Assyria. The nation will be judged for her exalted pride and lifted up heart.
I agree that this is very much like the judgment of the anointed cherub in Ezekiel 28. And I agree that because it says " Cedars in the garden of God could not hide it ... No tree in the garden of God could compare to it in its beauty" that the metaphor even goes as far as depicting Assyria being a tree in the Edenic garden of Genesis 2.
I also agree that the words in verse 9 - "I made it beautiful by the multitude of its branches, So that all the trees of Eden, which were in the garden of God, envied it." does sound like God making the anointed cherub beautiful in the Eden in which he was in in Ezekiel 28:12-14.
Because there is this similarity in God given beauty and subsequent pride, fall and judgment, does that cause me to imagine Satan (and Antichrist the last virtual embodiment of Satan) are not being unveiled in Ezekiel 28:13-18. No, this re-applied theme concerning Egypt does not cause me to obscure the clear reference to the super being in the Ezekiel passage.
I think that G.H. Pember does identify one Ittiobalus as the likely referent of the first lamentation in Ezekiel 28:1-10. But that lamentation CONCLUDES in verse 10 -
You will die the death of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers, for I have spoken, declares the Lord Jehovah.
And a whole NEW lamentation is commenced with verses 11,12
Moreover the word of Jehovah came to me saying, Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre ... O you who sealed up perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. (v.12)
The first 10 verses of the chapter concern "the prince of Tyre" . The the lamentation commencing with verses 11,12 concern "the king of Tyre" . I think there must be a reason for the change which we are to note.
While the metaphor of chapter 31 only speaks of trees of Eden with which the reading of Genesis would inform us, the description of the Eden in which the anointed cherub is speaks of features of that paradise of which absolutely no mention is made in Genesis 2. It must be another Eden where the mountain of God is a feature and the glorious stones of fire are a feature.
Furthermore we are clearly told that this prince of Tyre is a human man - " ... yet you are a man and not a god, " . Both the place and the being of the lamentation starting with verses 12 go beyond to something much more extraordinary.
Beautiful trees of Eden as metaphors in chapter 31 are readily understood in connection to Genesis 2. The mountain of God, the stones of fire, the ark of the covenant which is in the Holy of Holies into which Jesus is said to have entered in His ascension (Hebrews 9:12) which is "higher than the heavens" (Hebrews 7:26) indicate the third heavens.
I stop here for length- Cont. below.
Originally posted by sonshipCouldn't the King of Tyre be a "Prince" before he became a King?
Does the metaphor usage in [b]Ezekiel 31 make Satan's ancient origins and past a bad interpretation in Ezekiel 28:13-18? I will probably need more than a couple of posts to respond with No.
RJ:Pharaoh is also described in Garden of Eden metaphors in Ezekiel 31.
True basically.
The beauty of trees is used in the me ...[text shortened]... eavens" (Hebrews 7:26)[/b] indicate the third heavens.
I stop here for length- Cont. below.[/b]
Anyway, I don't see Ezekiel 28 saying anything about millions or billions of years between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.
It appears to me that this is all a great effort on your part and your guru Witness Lee's part to obscure or obfuscate the truth.
Now the envy of the trees of Eden of Assyria I think should be understood as the envy of other nations. Yes, the metaphor does speak of the trees of Eden. But it becomes clear that as Egypt will go down to Sheol and meet other nations there so the trees will also go down to Sheol.
I made the nations quake at the sound of its fall when I cast it down to Sheol with those who descend into the pit. And all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all who drink water, were comforted in the lowest parts of the earth.
They also descend with it into Sheol to those who were slain by the sword; indeed to those who were its arm, who dwelt under its shade among the nations.
Which among the trees of Eden then are you like in glory and in greatness? Yet you will be brought down with the trees of Eden to the lowest parts of the earth; you will lie among the uncircumcised, with those slain by the sword.
This is Pharaoh and all his multitude, declares the Lord Jehovah. (Ezek. 31:16-18)
What this ends up really meaning is that the trees of Eden eventually mean the envious nations that were conquered by other nations. Trees going down to Sheol the place of the dead eventually means people of conquered nations going down with Egypt into the realm of death.
This means that beauty of the trees and the most beautiful tree, ie. Assyria, then Egypt like Assyria, is a really not related to the things of God but to worldly pomp and riches - that which in the world's eyes is "great".
I am saying that the allusions to Eden the garden of God do not remain in such a way that that holy paradise is only passing reference. The comparison to Eden eventually points to all that man regards as splendid and rich, pompous and proud of worldly empires. The trees going down into Sheol as Egypt will go down into Sheol mean the collapse of man's pompous empires under God's judgment.
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Originally posted by RJHindsLet's start with you last comment first.
Couldn't the King of Tyre be a "Prince" before he became a King?
Anyway, I don't see Ezekiel 28 saying anything about millions or billions of years between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.
It appears to me that this is all a great effort on your part and your guru Witness Lee's part to obscure or obfuscate the truth.
It appears to me that this is all a great effort on your part and your guru Witness Lee's part to obscure or obfuscate the truth.
I sense deflection and also annoyance. You want to change the subject to Lee bashing perhaps.
Actually, I thought your post was very good. I have heard of the chapter 31 comparison before. And now to show that other teachers beside Witness Lee have helped me on Ezekiel I submit a portion by Dr. Donald Barnhouse.
He writes about Satan wanting to ascend higher and higher and the ark of the covenant in the heaven of heavens.
From The Invisible War by Donald Barnhouse -
" Let us now consider the heavenly territory which Satan proposed to conquer. The Bible uses the word or idea of heaven in four different senses: that of the immediate atmosphere of earth, including the clouds; that of our solar system and the heaven of the stars; that of the lower heavens, presently occupied by the forces of Satan and the scene of his spiritual activity; and that of the far above heavens of the throne of God. We make no attempt to go into detail about the subject so wonderful that Paul speaks of a man caught up into the third heaven, he describes him as having heard words that are "not lawful for a man to utter" (II Corinthians 12:4). But we do know that Moses was strictly admonished to make every detail of the tabernacle and its worship serve "unto the example and shadow of heavenly things" (Exodus 25:40; Hebrews 8:5) and the New Testament tells us that the tabernacle was itself the pattern of things in the heavens (Hebrews 9:23). When we read that the tabernacle contained a holy place and the holiest of all (Hebrews 9:2,3), we are to understand that thee isa similar plan in the heavenlies, Thus, we read that Christ in His Ascension entered into the holy place (Hebrews 9:12), higher than the heavens (Hebrews 7:26) ' or, as it is stated in Ephesians, He was raised to the right hand of the Father in the heavens far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every bane that is named (Ephesians 1:20,21). "
The point Barnhouse is making concerns how high a position and how great the greed for more Satan had in the pre-adamic age. Barnhouse goes on to expound that his wanting to ascend (as in Isaiah 14) shows that the earth was part of his principality.
"Most commentators have assumed that he was somewhere in heaven, that his fall took place there, and that he was cast down to earth. However, we find no evidence for such a position. Rather do we find the Bible specifically teaching that his rebellion took place on earth and that its first manifestation as a bold statement from Lucifer that he would ascend into heaven."
While I am not certain of all these details, he has a good point that to ascend suggests that Lucifer had to go UP from a lower realm. I think therefore that he traveled between earth and heaven in the exercise of his priestly and kingly authority, an office that he eventually corrupted and gained following rebels from heaven and from that ancient earth.
Couldn't the King of Tyre be a "Prince" before he became a King?
I understand that a man is often a prince before being a king in the world. But it is as the king of Tyre that God says he was "created" from verses 13 and 15.
Anyway, I don't see Ezekiel 28 saying anything about millions or billions of years between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.
When the anointed cherub was on the mountain of God walking amidst the stones of fire covering as the covering cherub divine glory has three possibilities:
1.) This could be Eden AFTER the creation of man.
2.) This could be Eden DURING the creation of man.
3.) This could be an Eden PRIOR to the creation of man.
The third choice makes the most sense to me. And not only Witness Lee but many others agree. I included the agreement of Donald Barnhouse, no close associate of Witness Lee but an astute teacher of the Scriptures.
And more from him is to follow.
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It appears to me that this is all a great effort on your part and your guru Witness Lee's part to obscure or obfuscate the truth.
Its very interesting that GH Pember would say that those obscuring the reference to ancient Satan are "trifling" with the word of God.
He writes:
"But the lamentation upon the King of Tyrus (Ezek. xxviii.11-19) does not so readily yield its meaning: for there are expressions in it which cannot be applied to any mortal. Now to adopt the too common plan of explaining these away as mere figures of speech, is to trifle with the Word of God. We have no right to use so dishonest a method of extricating ourselves from difficulties, a method which enables men to deduce almost any desired meaning from a passage, and makes the whole Bible an enigma instead of a disclosure. We must rather confess, if it be necessary, that we have no clue whatever to an interpretation."
[-Earth's Earliest Ages by GH Pember,Revell, pg 47 ]
Originally posted by sonshipHe can see pink flowers and fairies in there for all I care. But I am interested in the truth and his ideas seem more like from someone on an hallucinogenic to me for I see no evidence for millions and billions of years between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.It appears to me that this is all a great effort on your part and your guru Witness Lee's part to obscure or obfuscate the truth.
Its very interesting that GH Pember would say that those obscuring the reference to ancient Satan are "trifling" with the word of God.
He writes:
"But the lamentation upon the King of Tyrus ( ...[text shortened]... to an interpretation."
[-[b]Earth's Earliest Ages by GH Pember,Revell, pg 47 ][/b]
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Originally posted by sonshipI believe there was and still is a paradise Eden in the spirtual Heaven of God before the creation of the physical heavens and the earth referred to in Genesis 1:1-2.
Let's start with you last comment first.
It appears to me that this is all a great effort on your part and your guru Witness Lee's part to obscure or obfuscate the truth.
I sense deflection and also annoyance. You want to change the subject to Lee bashing perhaps.
Actually, I thought your post was very good. I have heard of th ...[text shortened]... ate of Witness Lee but an astute teacher of the Scriptures.
And more from him is to follow.
HalleluYah !!! Praise the LORD! Holy! Holy! Holy!
And Jesus replied, "I assure you today, You will be with me in paradise."
Luke 23:43
'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.'
Revelation 2:7
I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago-- whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows-- such a man was caught up to the third heaven. And I know how such a man-- whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows-- was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak.
2 Corinthians 12:2-4
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Originally posted by RJHinds
It appears to me that this is all a great effort on your part and your guru Witness Lee's part to obscure or obfuscate the truth.
I still have a comment about this. You seem frustrated that someone can defend the so-called "Gap Theory" and are falling back now on sarcasm and contempt.
1.) I thought your post on Ezekiel 31 was quite good, thoughtful. Usually when you don't include the smug face at the end there is better content.
2.) I learned about the interval between verse 1 and 2 of Genesis before I even heard of Witness Lee. When I came to the Lord's recovery I found out he agreed with Pember's book.
3.) Witness Lee did not go into long defense of billions of years of the past. I have a powerful search engine at my disposal which can find the mention of words and phrases in all of the 400 published messages and books by Witness Lee.
I have spent much more space and time here defending the Gap then I can find Witness Lee doing.
4.) Lee's ministry was always focused like a laser beam on the experience of the Triune God as life for the building up of the church. And I expect that if alive today he would probably not encourage me to argue about "billions of years" of the universe age because he cared mostly for spiritual life rather than taking Genesis to find out about physical science.
Below is a segment of his treatment of Ezekiel 31 in which is a portion that even agrees with some of your article. You should see how much he cares for the experience of Christ in his speaking about God judging the nations.
SEVEN REPRESENTATIVE NATIONS
Chapters twenty-five through thirty-two of Ezekiel speak of seven nations that surrounded the nation of Israel. Actually, there were more nations around Israel, but the record mentions only seven. This is similar to the mentioning of the seven churches in Asia in Revelation 1—3. When the Lord spoke of the churches in Asia, He selected seven (1:11). This does not mean that there were only seven churches in Asia but that the Lord selected seven representative churches. The principle is the same in the book of Ezekiel. There were more than seven nations surrounding Israel, but the Lord selected seven nations as representatives of all the nations. These seven nations were Ammon, Moab, Edom, Philistia, Tyrus, Zidon, and Egypt.
Divided into Three Groups
These seven nations are divided into three groups. The first four nations—Ammon, Moab, Edom, and Philistia—form the first group; Tyrus and Zidon make up the second group; and Egypt stands alone. We know that these nations are divided into these three groups because Ezekiel saw three separate visions at three different times concerning these groups. His first vision covers the first four nations; his second vision, Tyrus and Zidon; and his third vision, Egypt. Moreover, the first two, Ammon and Moab, fit together as a pair; the third and fourth, Edom and Philistia, stand as a pair; and the fifth and sixth, Tyrus and Zidon, are a pair. Only Egypt is alone.
Applicable to Today’s Situation
The Old Testament is not only a record of history but a record that can be applied to the church today. We need to keep this in mind as we read the book of Ezekiel and be impressed with the fact that Ezekiel was not written merely for the sake of history. Rather, the record in this book is applicable to today’s situation. Therefore, we need to know the spiritual application of all these seven representative nations. Previously we pointed out that the spiritual application of the noisome beasts is that some evil people could be in the church as wolves (Ezek. 14:21; Acts 20:29). Here we have the spiritual application of Ezekiel’s word concerning the beasts. Now we need to see the spiritual application of the seven nations. Otherwise, we may read these chapters merely as prophecies which have been fulfilled in history.
TYRUS AND ZIDON
Tyrus typifies those who are seeking worldly wealth, those who desire to make a great deal of money and to be rich. They will sacrifice everything related to the Lord for the sake of their business. They do not care for the Lord’s interest but care only for their wealth, riches, and business.
People of Tyrus can be found among unbelievers and also among believers. Some of your unbelieving relatives, classmates, and friends may be “Tyrians.” If you speak to them concerning Christ, the church, or the Lord’s testimony, they do not understand what you are talking about. They are interested only in what will help them to have a better living, to make more money, or to get a higher position. Some genuine Christians also are “Tyrians.” If you speak to them about the Lord’s recovery, they may think that you are foolish and say that you spend too much time in attending meetings, in having fellowship, and in reading the Bible. They may think that you do not care enough about making money. Therefore, both believers and unbelievers can be today’s “Tyrians.”
As recorded in the book of Ezekiel, the people of Tyrus declared that Jerusalem would fall, and they were happy about it. The situation is the same today. Those people who are pursuing worldly wealth would be happy to see the church terminated and would be glad if the meeting hall doors were permanently closed, for they think that attending the meetings of the church is a waste of time. Perhaps even certain ones among us in the church life may hold such an attitude. Desiring to make more money and to secure a better living for themselves, they do not care for the church or the Lord’s interest. They care only for business, wealth, and position in the world. When they hear about some who are backsliding, they are happy.
Copied from The Life Study of Ezekiel by Witness Lee, Living Stream Ministry,
http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?n
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Continued from "The Life Study of Ezekiel by Witness Lee
According to the Bible Egypt is a nation that depends not on God but on its own resources. Egypt had the Nile River as the resource of its riches. Thus, the Egyptians did not depend on the rains from heaven but on the water from their Nile. In addition, they exercised their wisdom to develop their natural resources in order to become rich and have a sufficient supply. Whenever the people of Israel were short of food, they went down to Egypt for the supply. From all this we see that Egypt represents persons who exercise their natural wisdom to develop their natural resources to be rich and have a supply. At the time of Ezekiel, Israel turned to Egypt and leaned upon Egypt, trusting in Egypt as a staff. But the Lord said that Egypt was a staff made of reeds, easy to break (Ezek. 29:2-9).
When Ezekiel spoke about Tyre and Egypt, he compared them to the garden of Eden (28:13; 31:9, 16). With their riches and resources, Tyre and Egypt made their contemporary world “a garden of Eden.” This was not a garden of Eden prepared by God but “a garden of Eden” made by those who cared not for God but only for their rich enjoyment on earth. However, God said that He would send Egypt, with its “garden of Eden,” to Hades, to the pit, to the depths of the earth. This reveals that God will judge those people who care only for earthly happiness and enjoyment but who do not need God.
In this message we have considered seven kinds of people who can damage the church life. Some are against the church, hating Christ, God’s salvation, and God’s grace. These are the “Ammonites.” Others creep into the church and try to bring the church into association with the world and to make the church the same as the world. These are the “Moabites.” Then there are the “Edomites,” the old man, and the “Philistines,” the natural man. The “Tyrians” seek the riches of the world, and the “Zidonians” become briers and thorns to the church due to the seeking of riches. Finally, there are the “Egyptians,” those who, independent of God, seek worldly riches by developing their own resources to be rich in supply and to be a source of supply for others. These are the different people who can be a damage to the church life. We all need to be on the alert that none of us would become these kinds of persons.