The Gospel of Jesus vs The Gospel of Paul

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30 Jan '18 18:04

ThinkOfOne
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19 Feb '18 18:04
Originally posted by @sonship
There doesn't seem much hope for you to be able to understand what I was saying about the "contradiction" that you asserted.

It is noted that there seems little to no hope you will defend your arbitrary method of discarding portions of the Gospels. Other than a wink to "trust" you, you cannot be anything but nebulous about what chapters ...[text shortened]... [b]Luke.

Whether I am calm or excited should have no bearing on your ability to do this.[/b]
Just so you now fully understand that not only have I never had a problem with your switch to "sonship" from "jaywill", I defended you when you did so.

Those busting your chops were ridiculous. What did they expect? That you'd put an explanation in every post you made for a month or something?
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19 Feb '18 19:47
Originally posted by @thinkofone
Just so you now fully understand that not only have I never had a problem with your switch to "sonship" from "jaywill", I defended you when you did so.

Those busting your chops were ridiculous. What did they expect? That you'd put an explanation in every post you made for a month or something?
Thankyou for coming to my defense.

But I don't remember any of this though.
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19 Feb '18 20:187 edits
God in giving us the divine oracles of His speaking, included the examples of a number of pioneering servants of His whose maturity was set forth as examples to us.

The Apostle Paul is certainly one.
He was faithful. He was pioneering in the experience of the living Christ.

That He authored 13 of the NT 27 books I take as no accident. God entrusted to [this man] (edited) to do that job under God's providence.

To my experience most of the Bible students who complain that they have a problem with the Apostle Paul actually have their problems with the Lord Jesus before that.

To my experience most of the people claiming that Paul ruined the new covenant are more influenced by the degradation of Christianity rather than anything actually blamable to Paul's writings.

A vast number of Bible students seem to place lopsided emphasis on Paul's basic book of Christian doctrine (Romans) only up to about Romans chapter 4. It seems that chapters beyond Paul's talk about justification are not even there.

I assume their problems are not really with Romans as a whole book, but with Reformation theology which is mostly preoccupied with Justification by Faith.

I would even beg readers who consider Paul as some culprit who messed up the teachings of Jesus Christ to STOP DOING THAT. Their ire is misdirected.

Instead they should humble themselves, thank God for a faithful servant like Paul, and try to learn from him instead - WHILE cherishing the words of the Lord Jesus in the gospels.

I did use the word "beg". Paul is NOT vs Christ.
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19 Feb '18 20:41
Critics of Paul who contend he preached a different Gospel than Jesus Christ often neglect to state (or don’t know or remember) that Paul was specifically chosen by Jesus to preach His Gospel to the Gentiles.

“And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

and desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

and he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.

And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.

And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.

And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,

and hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.

Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:

and here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.

But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

for I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.”

(Acts 9:1-16)
ThinkOfOne
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19 Feb '18 21:061 edit
Originally posted by @sonship
Thankyou for coming to my defense.

But I don't remember any of this though.
You're welcome.
FMF
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19 Feb '18 21:13
Originally posted by @sonship
If you are fonder of the older posts of which you spoke glowingly, why don't you show us by [b]linking to better posts of mine. You know, ones in which you had no problem with Jesus "flowing out" of sonship / jaywill.

Show us by comparison.
And if you have none to present then you must be involved in lying flattery as your only desperate alternat ...[text shortened]... omment include links to my past better posts more to your admiration (supposedly).[/b]
You want me to spend time and go and find links/verbatim quotes of what you said and only THEN you will address my question, is that it?
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19 Feb '18 21:15
Originally posted by @sonship
. And if you have none to present then you must be involved in lying flattery as your only desperate alternative to effective rebuttals to my posts.
What "lying flattery"?
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19 Feb '18 21:18
Originally posted by @thinkofone
You're welcome.
Hey, while you're in a gracious and helpful mood, show us how you delineate what lies inside of "Jesus' ministry" and what lies outside of "Jesus' ministry" in Matthew and Luke.

I will accept the answer "I can't do that" as a legitimate answer. And then perhaps we can go from THERE about so-called Jesus vs Paul in the gospel.
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19 Feb '18 21:281 edit
Originally posted by @sonship
Hey, while you're in a gracious and helpful mood, show us how you delineate what lies inside of "Jesus' ministry" and what lies outside of "Jesus' ministry" in [b]Matthew and Luke.

I will accept the answer "I can't do that" as a legitimate answer. And then perhaps we can go from THERE about so-called Jesus vs Paul in the gospel.[/b]
I don't know why you're pretending that I haven't explained that it's a commonly used expression and that you could google it.

Here, I did your work for you:
What was the length of Jesus' public ministry?
The Bible does not tell us the exact number of days Jesus Christ served in public ministry. However, a close look at the chronological data revealed in the Gospels allows us to carefully reconstruct a timeline with a good degree of accuracy.

To begin, Luke noted that the ministry of John the Baptist began in the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar's reign, which was the year AD 26. Jesus began to minister shortly after this time at approximately the age of 30 (or perhaps "early 30s"; Luke 3:23). His crucifixion took place in either AD 30 or 33, indicating that His public ministry took place within the AD 26—33 timeframe.

More specifically, scholars note that if Jesus began His public ministry between mid to late AD 26 and died in the spring of AD 30, His ministry would have been a total of 3½ years (including His resurrection, 40 days of appearances, and ascension). Others who argue for the crucifixion taking place in AD 33 argue that Jesus did not begin His ministry until AD 29, calculating the starting date of Tiberius Caesar's reign based upon the death of his predecessor Augustus Caesar in AD 14, meaning that the ministry of John the Baptist began in AD 29. In either case, a public ministry of about 3½ years is still the conclusion.
https://www.compellingtruth.org/length-Jesus-ministry.html
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19 Feb '18 21:593 edits
Originally posted by @thinkofone
What was the length of Jesus' public ministry?

It was roughly, three and one half years.

The Bible does not tell us the exact number of days Jesus Christ served in public ministry.

That is not necessary to know to make the kind of statements you make that this or that was not a part of His ministry while walking on earth.

However, a close look at the chronological data revealed in the Gospels allows us to carefully reconstruct a timeline with a good degree of accuracy.
The record and nature of His words and work are OUTSIDE of His ministry in which chapters of Matthew and Luke?

Incidently, Matthew's account is laid out to convey doctrinal points rather than chronological order.

To begin, Luke noted that the ministry of John the Baptist began in the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar's reign, which was the year AD 26.

Luke chapters 23,24 lie INSIDE or OUTSIDE of the ministry of Jesus ?

Matthew chapters 27,28 lie INSIDE or OUTSIDE of the ministry of Jesus?

Jesus began to minister shortly after this time at approximately the age of 30 (or perhaps "early 30s"; Luke 3:23).

Luke 3:21-22 was INSIDE the ministry of Jesus or OUTSIDE of the ministry of Jesus as He walked the earth?
Which?
"Now when all the people were baptized and as Jesus was baptized and was praying, heaven was opened,
And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form as a dove upon Him. And a voice came out of heaven:

You are My Son, the Beloved; in You I have found My delight." (vs.21,22)

INSIDE or OUTSIDE of the ministry of Jesus while He walked the earth?

His crucifixion took place in either AD 30 or 33, indicating that His public ministry took place within the AD 26—33 timeframe.

Below, INSIDE His ministry or OUTSIDE?
"Then He opened their mind to understand the Scriptures, And He said to them,

Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer these things and rise up from the dead on the third day, And that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem." (Luke 24:45-47)

Is John's record in John 20:19,20 INSIDE or OUTSIDE of Jesus ministry?
"When therefore it was evening on that day, the first day of the week, and while the doors were shut where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst and said to them, Peace be to you.

and when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. The disciples therefore rejoiced at seeing the Lord." (John 20:19,20)

Were these words and actions of Jesus after His being put to death within the scope of His ministry?

More specifically, scholars note that if Jesus began His public ministry between mid to late AD 26 and died in the spring of AD 30, His ministry would have been a total of 3½ years (including His resurrection, 40 days of appearances, and ascension).

[My bolding]
Did you read carefully what you just copied?

Time to commit and no longer hide behind "Some say this and Some say that."

Do you agree with the statement generally (give or take a month)
His ministry would have been a total of 3½ years (including His resurrection, 40 days of appearances, and ascension).
?

Yes or No?
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19 Feb '18 22:193 edits
Originally posted by @sonship
What was the length of Jesus' public ministry?

It was roughly, three and one half years.

The Bible does not tell us the exact number of days Jesus Christ served in public ministry.

That is not necessary to know to make the kind of statements you make that this or that was not a part of His ministry while walking on eart ...[text shortened]... g His resurrection, 40 days of appearances, and ascension). [/quote] ?

Yes or No?[/b]
Actually that's funny, I'd just skimmed it. I've seen some date it as early as through The Last Supper with most typically going through the crucifixion and with "while He walked the Earth" also going through the crucifixion. As I recall, very early on I had explicitly told you "while He walked the Earth" was through the crucifixion.

Still not sure why you're so fixated on this.
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20 Feb '18 01:013 edits
Originally posted by @thinkofone
My first replying post was way too long.

Suffice it merely to say the argument is not between Jesus' ministry and Paul. It is between Jesus and You with your unbelieving resurrection-LESS "Gospel", the one you cleverly try to avoid owning up to.
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20 Feb '18 01:24
Originally posted by @sonship
My first replying post was way too long.

Suffice it merely to say the argument is not between Jesus' ministry and Paul. It is between Jesus and You with your resurrection-LESS "Gospel". The one you cleverly try to avoid owning up to.
Not even the disciples, the ones closest to Christ knew he was going to die. They were all surprised when it happened. Neither did they know he was going to be raised. They were all shocked and did not even believe he was raised.

A knowledge of this part of Christ role in the salvation of mankind is not critical for ones eternal life.

If you know it .. fine.
If you dont know it ... thats cool too.
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20 Feb '18 01:351 edit
"That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." (Rom. 10:9)
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20 Feb '18 01:40
Originally posted by @sonship
[b] "That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." (Rom. 10:9)
[/b]
Jesus said no such thing, so its not part of the teachings of Christ. The many thousands and thousands that Jesus preached to were oblivious to his death and resurrection. Knowledge of this has no bearing on whether or not someone enters the Kingdom of God.