Originally posted by jaywill
Since John Lennon himself eventually believed in Jesus, according to at least one biographer I read, there's no need to squabble with you about it.

Your taking John Lennon now are you? Niiiiccce.
No squabble, then. But , yknow, his lyrics were what they were.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Your taking John Lennon now are you? Niiiiccce.
No squabble, then. But , yknow, his lyrics were what they were.

He had a brief "born again" experience around 77'.
He later did a reversal and denounced christianity.

It can be googled easy enough I am sure

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Your taking John Lennon now are you? Niiiiccce.
No squabble, then. But , yknow, his lyrics were what they were.

My only real point here is that Mr. Lennon came around to seeing he needed Christ.

"All you need is Christ" is true you know ?

If you want to talk purely artistic stuff, sure Lennon and McCartny were very versitile and imaginative song writers.

I liked the wide scope of ideas they had. I am a musician myself karoly.

Originally posted by utherpendragon
He had a brief "born again" experience around 77'.
He later did a reversal and denounced christianity.

It can be googled easy enough I am sure

That is not unusual that people denounce Christianity after being born again. He did not denounce Jesus. Plenty of Christians denounce "organized religion".

That is nothing new. He was disgusted with TV evangelists.

Nothing new there dude. Nothing new.

Now Bob Dylan became a Christian and then went to Judaism. If you want a bow face, maybe that's your better example.

But you know, once you are born again you cannot be unborn again. I don't care HOW much you denounce Christianity. Once the Spirit of the resurrected Christ enters into your human spirit, He is not leaving for eternity.

There plenty of people who meet the PERSON of Jesus Christ who voice their unhappiness over religion.

Register that man. Once Jesus gets into you, you are stuck with Him forever. You can denounce Christianity as much as you want. You're HIS !!

Originally posted by jaywill
It would have been better if the Beatles had sung [b]"All you need is Christ".[/b]

Not for their bank account, it wouldn't. 😕

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Not for their bank account, it wouldn't. 😕

Your're breaking my heart.

"What would it profit a man if he should gain the whole world and lose his own soul?"

Okay, let's consider. FAME ? Who can right now remember who got best actor of the year in 1956 ?

Without looking it up only the most astute movie buff could answer in 10 seconds. People forget you fame. The generation passes and what you did will melt away into history.

Who can in three seconds name who had the best selling album in 1966? Have to look it up don't we ?

Some day the Beatles will be only an obscure footnote in history. Enough time will pass and the memory of them will fade as with Wagner or Beethoven or even the Chipmunks.

Money? Money! I bet McCartny wishes MONEY could have saved his wife's life. Money is not that reliable. Its fun. But its not completely reliable. And it "Can't by me love".

Money is what broke the group up into law suits with one another. I think it was one of the Elizabethian queens who on her death bed said - "All my posessions for a moment of time."

We need Christ to make it all right with God, with man, and with ourselves.

Originally posted by Rajk999
If you mistake my criticism of the doctrine and modus operandi of some the Islamic community as hatred then you need to either grow up or ... grow up. I criticize Christians also who preach doctrines contrary to what Christ taught.

The concept of love as taught by Christ can only be demonstrated by the act of giving and sharing with those less fortunate ...[text shortened]... ting the often evil actvitities or wrong doctrines of Muslims -- which you are guilty of doing.

See? You're doing it again and you expect me to believe your overtures that Islam is a religion of hate!

By the way, the Qur'an does not sanction physical violence, as compared to (ahem) the OT, Book 7 chapter 16, "You shall destroy all the peoples ... showing them no pity" or Book 20 chapter 17 "You shall not let a soul remain alive," etc.

Originally posted by scherzo
See? You're doing it again and you expect me to believe your overtures that Islam is a religion of hate!

By the way, the Qur'an does not sanction physical violence, as compared to (ahem) the OT, Book 7 chapter 16, "You shall destroy all the peoples ... showing them no pity" or Book 20 chapter 17 "You shall not let a soul remain alive," etc.

i wouldn't go there Scherzo, not if you want to come out alive, there are many references to violence, especially to unbelievers and the enemies of Islam.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i wouldn't go there Scherzo, not if you want to come out alive, there are many references to violence, especially to unbelievers and the enemies of Islam.

"Nor take life - which ALLAH SWT has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, We have given his heir authority: but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped." (al-Isra' 17:33)

"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors." (al-Baqara 2:190)

Originally posted by Rajk999
Whats the point of faith if you dont have love and charity? Your so-called faith is null and void. Consider the following verses:

[quote]1Cor 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and [b]have not love/charity, I am nothing.

1Cor 1 ...[text shortened]... (the kind professed with your mouth) = Nothing
Love and Charity trumps faith everytime. [/b]

"Your salvation revolves around your ability to show LOVE & CHARITY to your neighbour."

No. Salvation revolves solely around what Jesus did on the cross on the believers behalf. Don't expect that every believer is suddenly proficient at loving everybody the momment they get saved.

No one is perfect, and no one has arrived yet.

One can do nothing to earn salvation.
One can do nothing to maintain salvation.
One can do nothing to lose salvation.

What kind of salvation is it if it can be lost? It's not salvation at all.

The salvation that Jesus gives is a complete salvation.

If you don't understand that, it is because you have been taught and believe a corruption of the truth. Usually by those who wish to keep you in subjection to their authority, and under their control.

If Christ has set you free, then you are FREE. SAVED. Given the gift of ETERNAL life.

Under the law one is expected to perform in order to be saved, but under grace one is constrained by the love of Christ to do the works before ordained by God to walk in them.

If and when you begin to understand the fundamental change in how and what God is doing since after the resurrection of Jesus, you will then be free from putting yourself under a performance based system of law keeping. The law was given for the single purpose of leading one to Christ.

Originally posted by utherpendragon
He had a brief "born again" experience around 77'.
He later did a reversal and denounced christianity.

It can be googled easy enough I am sure

Translated, He got high and converted to Christianity. However, he sobered up and then denounced it. 😛

Originally posted by whodey
Translated, He got high and converted to Christianity. However, he sobered up and then denounced it. 😛

Here are snippets from an article on it. See it in full here,
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/januaryweb-only/001-22.0.html

Next came one of the most extraordinary turnabouts in John's life. A television addict for many years (it was his way of looking at the world since he could no longer walk around anonymously), he enjoyed watching some of America's best-known evangelists—Pat Robertson, Billy Graham, Jim Bakker, and Oral Roberts. In 1972 he had written a desperate letter to Roberts confessing his dependence on drugs and his fear of facing up to "the problems of life." He expressed regret that he had said that the Beatles were more popular than Jesus and enclosed a gift for the Oral Roberts University. After quoting the line "money can't buy me love" from "Can't Buy Me Love" he said, "It's true. The point is this, I want happiness. I don't want to keep on with drugs. ' Explain to me what Christianity can do for me. Is it phoney? Can He love me? I want out of hell."

Roberts sent him a copy of his book Miracle of Seed Faith and several letters explaining basic Christian beliefs.

This correspondence and his exposure to TV evangelism didn't appear to have any effect until he suddenly announced to close friends in the spring of 1977 that he'd become a born-again Christian. He had been particularly moved by the U.S. television premiere of Franco Zeffirelli's Jesus of Nazareth, starring Robert Powell as Jesus, which NBC showed in two three-hour segments on Palm Sunday, April 3, 1977. A week later, on Easter day, he took Yoko and Sean to a local church service.


Over the following months he baffled those close to him by constantly praising "the Lord," writing Christian songs with titles like "Talking with Jesus" and "Amen" (the Lord's Prayer set to music), and trying to convert nonbelievers. He also called the prayer line of The 700 Club, Pat Robertson's program. The change in his life perturbed Yoko, who tried to talk him out of it. She reminded him of what he'd said about his vulnerability to strong religious leaders because of his emotionally deprived background. She knew that if the press found out about it they would have a field day with another John and Jesus story. John became antagonistic toward her, blaming her for practicing the dark arts and telling her that she couldn't see the truth because her eyes had been blinded by Satan.

Those close to the couple sensed that the real reason she was concerned was that it threatened her control over John's life. If he became a follower of Jesus he would no longer depend on her and the occultists.

During long, passionate arguments she attacked the key points of his fledgling faith. They met with a couple of Norwegian missionaries whom Yoko questioned fiercely about the divinity of Christ, knowing that this was the teaching that John had always found the most difficult to accept. Their answers didn't satisfy her, and John began to waver in his commitment.

In an unpublished song, "You Saved My Soul," he spoke about "nearly falling" for a TV preacher while feeling "lonely and scared" in a Tokyo hotel. This must have referred to a trip to Japan at the end of May when he stayed at the Okura Hotel for over two months while Yoko visited relatives. Feeling isolated because of the language barrier, he locked himself away in his room for long stretches of time. At night he suffered terrifying nightmares.

According to John Green, who makes no mention of the born-again period in his book, John told him, "I'd lie in bed all day [in Tokyo], not talk, not eat, and just withdraw. And a funny thing happened. I began to see all these different parts of me. I felt like a hollow temple filled with many spirits, each one passing through me, each inhabiting me for a little time and then leaving to be replaced by another."

The image was remarkably like one suggested by Jesus and recorded in Luke 11. It's hard to imagine that John was unfamiliar with the passage. Jesus was warning of the danger of merely ridding oneself of evil spirits without taking in the good. He says that an unclean or evil spirit, finding nowhere to rest, will return. "And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first."

Whatever happened in Tokyo, it marked the end of his personal interest in Jesus. "You Saved My Soul" said that he "nearly" fell for the TV preacher, but that Yoko "saved me from that suicide." So the salvation of the title refers to being saved from God, not by God.

Originally posted by utherpendragon
[b]Here are snippets from an article on it. See it in full here,
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/januaryweb-only/001-22.0.html

Next came one of the most extraordinary turnabouts in John's life. A television addict for many years (it was his way of looking at the world since he could no longer walk around anonymously), he enjoyed watch refers to being saved from God, not by God.[/b][/b]

I heard that Yoko helped poison John's soul. In fact, I heard that the rest of the Beattles hated her as well.

This reminds of the parable of the sower and the seed given by Jesus as to why some fall away. You should read it, its a good read.

Originally posted by whodey
I heard that Yoko helped poison John's soul. In fact, I heard that the rest of the Beattles hated her as well.

This reminds of the parable of the sower and the seed given by Jesus as to why some fall away. You should read it, its a good read.

I am very familiar w/the parable and it does seem to fit.

Originally posted by jaywill
My only real point here is that Mr. Lennon came around to seeing he needed Christ.

"All you need is Christ" is true you know ?

If you want to talk purely artistic stuff, sure Lennon and McCartny were very versitile and imaginative song writers.

I liked the wide scope of ideas they had. I am a musician myself karoly.

Ah jaywill, ever the promoter of Jesus.
Tell me this, would you rather someone think that "All they need is Christ" and go on sinning or be their own person but follow the examples of Christ in their everyday life?
Yes I'm a musician too, but first and foremostly I am a child of the Light.
So if you want to talk music I will be a friendly conversant that deals with the subject at hand.
But if you want to talk Spirituality then I will have to insist on drawing from my personal experiences to deal with the truth. For personal experience is the ONLY truth I can rely on 100%. Just as you said another time, if you come on this forum you will insist on talking about Jesus.So be it. And again, I will remind you, I have absolutely no problem with Christians. Live and let live, brother jaywill.