The Greatest Spiritual Crisis of the 21st Century?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes but obesity is not the same as gluttony, you can be quite gluttonous and remain skinny.

I think the gluttony was a response to the disgusting habit of the Romans where they would eat till they were totally full, then force a puke and go back and eat some more. I can tell you, the few times that I have puked, going back and eating more food was the last thing on my mind. Besides your throat suffering an acid attack.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
I would say persistent gluttony, with respect to food, will make someone obese just as persistent gluttony, with respect to drink, will make someone an alcoholic. Not all people who are obese are so as a result of overeating, but the numbers are minuscule, less than 1% from what I recall on an NHS website.

I've seen Robbie use 2 Corinthians 7:1 as a ...[text shortened]... another thread he agreed the same scripture could be applied to obesity. What are your thoughts?

Here is the passage :

2Co 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

and here is the passage immediately predeeding :

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. (2 Corinthians 6:14-18 KJV)

It should be clear that the 'cleansing from all filthiness' applies to the idolatry which was rampant at the time.

Smoking is a non issue.

Originally posted by sonhouse
I think the gluttony was a response to the disgusting habit of the Romans where they would eat till they were totally full, then force a puke and go back and eat some more. .

I pulled Robbie up on this some months ago.
Its a myth!

So, Robbie, Galveston, sonship, whodey, tell me why homosexuals are targets for your criticism yet I can think of absolutely zero times you have criticised people who are obese?

Hey! If you want me to fess up that I need to lose some weight, OK. I know that I need to lose some weight. By His grace and my cooperation we're working on it.

Now, "singling out" or "targeting" -

Let's be sober about the Bible's attitude. On one hand you do have the record of Sodom and Gomorrah being dramatically judged by God because of homosexuality.

And you do have Roman's chapter one highlighting this sin in its review of the decline of civilization from the creation of man.

On the other hand homosexuality is mentioned as having equal importance as a sin to overcome, along with fornication, idolatry, stealing, covetousness, etc.

Right here:

First Corinthians 6:9-11 - "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be led astray; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor effeminate nor homosexuals nor thieves nor the covetous, not drunkards, not revilers, not the rapacious will inherit the kingdom of God.

And these things were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and in the Spirit of our God. "

Here homosexuality is placed pretty much on the same level as being covetous. That is wanting something in a jealous way.

Here homosexuality is placed practically on the same level as fornication, thievery, adultery, and idol worship.

So for the Christian to be concerned about homosexuality should be matched by, ie. his concern for "American Idol" or "Mary Idol" or even "an idol of Jesus."

Homosexuality is mentioned along side of the married or unmarried person flirting or being tempted to have an affair with another person's spouse.

Equally here, the apostle is warning about the need to be washed, sanctified, and justified from these other sins as well.

My point here is that in some places in the Bible homosexual sex is singled out. In other places it is mentioned along with other sins which the Christian seems not taught to regard as less serious.

Originally posted by sonship

So, Robbie, Galveston, sonship, whodey, tell me why homosexuals are targets for your criticism yet I can think of absolutely zero times you have criticised people who are obese?

Hey! If you want me to fess up that I need to lose some weight, OK. I know that I need to lose some weight. By His grace and my cooperation we're working on it. ...[text shortened]... ned along with other sins which the Christian seems not taught to regard as [b]less serious.[/b]

So your view is that the bible is inconclusive as to whether homosexuality is akin to gluttony ? Or are you not sure yourself, as opposed to someone like Robbie who has clearly read the bible the way he wants to?

So your view is that the bible is inconclusive as to whether homosexuality is akin to gluttony ? Or are you not sure yourself, as opposed to someone like Robbie who has clearly read the bible the way he wants to?

I won't answer for Robbie.

The Bible is conclusive that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, if not here then there. All are in need of the Savior Jesus.

Further, as I am not afraid to speak of any particular sin, the particular sin should not be the focus. Christ is the One we should turn to. Looking away unto Jesus is effective in gaining freedom.

Being "sin centered" will not help. That is like pulling at a yarn of tightly wound up thread. The more you tug and tug the tighter it gets. I do not encourage anyone to gaze at their sin whatever it may be, but to look to Jesus Christ.

So I am not saying, the glutton needs Christ, but the homosexual needs Christ really more. Often the person who realizes he is bad is more opened to come to Christ. The refined sinner is prone to thing it is "the other guy" ... "the BAD guy" .. He needs Jesus.

"All have sinned and come short of the glory of God."

The Apostle Paul said that greedy unbridled lust was a form of idolatry.
An idol is something so important to a person that it replaces God as an object of supreme worship and adoration.

It is possible to make sexual experience an idol replacing God.
He said "Seek first His kingdom and righteousness and all things will be added to you."

God is my heavenly Father. As a Father He knows what I need. I should His righteousness and His kingdom first. He will provide for my needs. I should ask Him to save me from unbridled, irrational greedy lust breaking all bounds of self control. That would go for food as well as sexual pleasure.

Originally posted by sonship

So your view is that the bible is inconclusive as to whether homosexuality is akin to gluttony ? Or are you not sure yourself, as opposed to someone like Robbie who has clearly read the bible the way he wants to?

I won't answer for Robbie.

The Bible is conclusive that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, if not ...[text shortened]... edy lust breaking all bounds of self control. That would go for food as well as sexual pleasure.

Sorry, but that sounds like a nice way of evading the question, and kind of saying you don't know AND you shouldn't need to know.

Now I accept the spirit of your post and I can agree that we should focus on the positive, unifying Spirit rather than the many splintering down-spirals.

But (for example) then again wouldn't you say that to not murder (especially if you are just in the heat of the moment and the victim really doesn't deserve it) is better than to not over- eat?
Lets face it, some sins have greater consequences on our fellow man than others (if taken on face value)

Out of the seven deadly sins gluttony is either the last or sixth. A much deeper concern is that, which infects the soul, of sloth. In purely secular terms, it might be confused with a kind of depression symptom. However, it may go beyond a lack of desire for temporal things- it must be counteracted by the pursuit of certain virtues.

The following article is cited for reference purposes.

http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/logos/summary/v012/12.1.mcinerny.html

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Obesity.

[quote]The number of overweight and obese adults in the developing world has almost quadrupled to around one billion since 1980, says a report from a UK think tank. The Overseas Development Institute said one in three people worldwide was now overweight and urged governments to do more to influence diets............The report predicts a "huge ...[text shortened]... our criticism yet I can think of absolutely zero times you have criticised people who are obese?

If and when the state gives these people special perks for being overweight then I'll post on it.

The state does not promote obesity nor should it.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Obesity.

[quote]The number of overweight and obese adults in the developing world has almost quadrupled to around one billion since 1980, says a report from a UK think tank. The Overseas Development Institute said one in three people worldwide was now overweight and urged governments to do more to influence diets............The report predicts a "huge ...[text shortened]... our criticism yet I can think of absolutely zero times you have criticised people who are obese?

As Jesus pointed out, we have a tendency to notice the splinter in our neighbors eye and overlook the plank in our own. The one among us that is without sin should cast the first stone according to Jesus. However, we have all sinned and come short of the glory of God. What then should we do? Take the plank out of our own eye? Certainly not overlook sin.

Originally posted by Rajk999
The Bible condemns gluttony.

And eating shell fish, right?

The Seven Deadly Sins (ESV)

Proverbs 6:16-19: "There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and *hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers."

* Note: Only one overt deadly sin: murder; the other six covert sins are sins committed with the mind or sins of the tongue.

Colossians 3:8 "But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth."

James 1:20 "For the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God."

Hebrews 3:13 "But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin."

1 John 1:9 "If we confess [name] our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Matthew 6:24 “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money."

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death [spiritual death], but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

Originally posted by empovsun
And eating shell fish, right?

Why not have science answer it spanky?

Oh, that's right, science is only valuable unless it exposes lifestyles that left wingers champion.

Originally posted by empovsun
And eating shell fish, right?

breaking news: Mosaic law binding on Jews, Christians not Jews : breaking news.......breaking news........

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
breaking news: Mosaic law binding on Jews, Christians not Jews : breaking news.......breaking news........

The principle remains though right? Which is what exactly?