The Hoax of the Missing Link

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
The Christ my son, all gems and treasures are carefully concealed in the Christ.

There is nothing in the bible or Christ's word that needs a god. All the wisdom of the bible comes from man, there is nothing so subtle that it requires a god to render for the poor stupid human race unable to come up with moral values. To say the bible comes from a god is to denigrate the intelligence and creativity of the human race. It is like the stupid UFO theory that UFO people came down to earth with nothing better to do than to help build those ancient pyramids, since humans were too stupid to have the intelligence or creativity to have done it themselves. Therefore UFO's are real. What a crock of poo, which in the case of the UFO tale, you would probably agree with me. It is exactly the same with the biblical tales too. Men were and are creative enough and smart enough to have done it all by themselves, no god needed to come up with a moral code.

Any atheist can and have come up with perfectly valid moral codes based on the common good. No bible or supernatural forces needed.

If your christian god was needed to give moral guidance, does that mean there was no morality in ancient Egypt or ancient China or Ancient Japan or the first Aborigine civilization in Australia? All their moral codes were corrupt?

Originally posted by sonhouse
There is nothing in the bible or Christ's word that needs a god. All the wisdom of the bible comes from man, there is nothing so subtle that it requires a god to render for the poor stupid human race unable to come up with moral values. To say the bible comes from a god is to denigrate the intelligence and creativity of the human race. It is like the stupid nt Japan or the first Aborigine civilization in Australia? All their moral codes were corrupt?

Then what valid principles have you that one can compare them to the 'riches', of the Christ, do tell? If i follow them, will i be a happier, more purposeful individual? will they give me a sense of comfort in my tribulation? Can i disseminate them to others that they too may share this joyous revelation of yours? What are they since you have been emboldened to proffer them. Do tell.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes we have seen the demise of nominal Christianity and the rise of materialism, but its is to the detriment as a whole, 'man cannot live on bread alone', my friend, we have the Christ, who when one carefully studies his life pattern and emulates it to the best of his or her ability we are 'freed ', from all sorts of issues that are troubling mankind ...[text shortened]... found statement, 'Happy, are those conscious of their spiritual need'. You know its true.

You know its true.

LOL!!!!! Afraid not Rob. What i do know to be true is your penchant for 'enlightening' us with your 'rose tinted' vision of the world.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
[b]You know its true.

LOL!!!!! Afraid not Rob. What i do know to be true is your penchant for 'enlightening' us with your 'rose tinted' vision of the world.[/b]

its true dear Noobster, the manifestation of materialism is something of a cultural phenomena. The New cathedrals are the shopping malls and DIY stores. Close to where i live is a BnQ superstore, I pass it every Sunday, its filled with people and cars, Sunday afternoon is like one of their busiest times i reckon. Why? there is no reality other than that which is material. No longer are 'the riches of the Christ', enough to provide comfort, the term, 'shopping therapy', has replaced it! why? there is no reality other than that which is material. I go to the gym, if i watch the screens of the machines i get bombarded with advertising, 'buy this car, youll feel like a superhero once you take it for a ride'. Chicks with long blonde hair will want to share the ride with you as you gently cruise through some remote mountain pass on your way to St. Tropez'. what is that? How is owning a particular car going to make me any different as a person? Yet advertising works, why, because there is no reality other than that which is material. What is this but a reality, and who is to blame? the protagonists of materialism! Its naive to think that its not.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
its true dear Noobster, the manifestation of materialism is something of a cultural phenomena. The New cathedrals are the shopping malls and DIY stores. Close to where i live is a BnQ superstore, I pass it every Sunday, its filled with people and cars, Sunday afternoon is like one of their busiest times i reckon. Why? there is no reality other tha ...[text shortened]... et advertising works, why, because there is no reality other than that which is material.

I feel it may be useful to point out at this juncture that opposing consumerism with religion in the way you're doing Robbie is a false dichotomy. There are plenty of nominally religious people who also worship at the altars of consumerism, and equally there are many materialists for whom the whole capitalist sphere is anathemic.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
I feel it may be useful to point out at this juncture that opposing consumerism with religion in the way you're doing Robbie is a false dichotomy. There are plenty of nominally religious people who also worship at the altars of consumerism, and equally there are many materialists for whom the whole capitalist sphere is anathemic.

Yes there are but it does not negate the phenomena of Sunday afternoon shopping trips or the New Cathedrals being the all encompassing consumerist megaliths for the faithful to worship at. Whether its a false dichotomy i cannot say, sometimes its better to paint in monochrome, its helps when it comes to colourisation and applying tints later.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Yes there are but it does not negate the phenomena of Sunday afternoon shopping trips or the New Cathedrals being the all encompassing consumerist megaliths for the faithful to worship at. Whether its a false dichotomy i cannot say, sometimes its better to paint in monochrome, its helps when it comes to colourisation and applying tints later.

If you accept the second sentence of my post, then surely it is by simple definition a false dichotomy? And I think your paint analogy obscures the issue rather than clarifying it.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
I feel it may be useful to point out at this juncture that opposing consumerism with religion in the way you're doing Robbie is a false dichotomy. There are plenty of nominally religious people who also worship at the altars of consumerism, and equally there are many materialists for whom the whole capitalist sphere is anathemic.

what do you think ATC, is there no link between consumerism and materialism?

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
If you accept the second sentence of my post, then surely it is by simple definition a false dichotomy? And I think your paint analogy obscures the issue rather than clarifying it.

actually i thought it was rather brilliant myself 🙂

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
what do you think ATC, is there no link between consumerism and materialism?

There may be a link, but I don't see a causal relationship.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
actually i thought it was rather brilliant myself 🙂

I wasn't making a value judgement - from your point of view it was good, since it furthers your position in this discussion to obscure the simple nature of my point. I'll concede you it's elegance therefore.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
I wasn't making a value judgement - from your point of view it was good, since it furthers your position in this discussion to obscure the simple nature of my point. I'll concede you it's elegance therefore.

you attribute to much wily machinations to my position, im actually not that clever to be honest, to contrive such a scenario with my bushy fox like tail.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
what do you think ATC, is there no link between consumerism and materialism?

So you are saying you are not materialistic? Are you borrowing a computer from a friend to type all these pithy comments? Do you ride a bicycle to work, or better yet, walk to work? Do you grow your own food in your garden, weeding it daily? Or use your own hand built fishing rod to catch fish with line made of fish guts strung together so you don't have to buy string from those nasty materialistic fishing rod stores?

Sounds like the kettle calling the pot black.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
There may be a link, but I don't see a causal relationship.

i think people derive values from material things all the time, how many rooms your house has, what kind of car you drive, how much money you earn, dont you think? In fact we attribute all sorts of crazy values to people who have amassed fortunes, like they are therefore capable of running a country, or they know what is tasteful and what is not.

Originally posted by sonhouse
So you are saying you are not materialistic? Are you borrowing a computer from a friend to type all these pithy comments? Do you ride a bicycle to work, or better yet, walk to work? Do you grow your own food in your garden, weeding it daily? Or use your own hand built fishing rod to catch fish with line made of fish guts strung together so you don't have to ...[text shortened]... those nasty materialistic fishing rod stores?

Sounds like the kettle calling the pot black.

yes that's exactly what i am saying. My computer i built myself from the constituent parts, it was a necessity at the time. I rode from leaving school a bicycle for ten years, at present i have two. Three times i have been knocked over by motorists opening their car doors on me. I only drive a truck out of necessity. I did not obtain a driving license until my mid twenties. I have a fibreglass fishing rod, yes i grow my own vegetables in a greenhouse.

You are missing of course entirely the point, materialism is a state of mind, the value or the emphasis that one puts on material things, not the actual owning or not owning of things themselves.

yes i have a kettle, its white.