19 May '07 22:19>
This thread is off to a great start. 😕
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneWhat do you see as "rejecting" Christ?
What do you see as "rejecting" Christ? If one comes to repentance and lives a life based in love, compassion, justice, etc., yet doesn't proclaim Jesus as his savior, has he "rejected" Christ? What is Christ if not the embodiment of love, compassion, justice, etc.?
Originally posted by whiteroseYes. Whether or not they believe in hell as eternal damnation doesn't matter. Ultimately, enlightenment doesn't amount to anything; only Christ's work on the cross is sufficient to cover one's sins and deliver one from sin and death.
What about someone like a devout Buddhist monk? Are they going o burn in hell for not accepting Jesus as their saviour? (not that they would care, of course, as they don't believe in heaven and hell)
Originally posted by whiteroseI find it highly unlikely that the bible would lie about Christ, considering the bible's unequivocal stand for honesty and wholehearted genuineness.
Did jesus make exclusive claims, or is it the bible that makes them? What if jesus simply preached "love thy neighbor", and all that other stuff about having to be a christian was made up to keep people under the influence of the church?
Originally posted by epiphinehas[/b]
[b]What do you see as "rejecting" Christ?
Rejecting Christ means choosing not to believe in Him; rejecting the biblical claim that He was crucified in one's place in propitiation for one's sins, and that three days later He was resurrected from the dead to glory, thereby conquering sin and death for whoever believes in Him.
If one comes to r yes, but He is also the Savior, and we are saved by believing in Him as savior.
Originally posted by ThinkOfOne"Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it" (Ephesians 2:9).
You seem to take great pride in your sense of exclusivity. Perhaps you'll come to see that love is love, compassion is compassion and justice is justice. Perhaps you'll come to open your heart to all your neighbors.
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandm ...[text shortened]... self.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." Mark 12:30-31[/b]
Originally posted by epiphinehasI agree that it's not about "works", but what is in one's heart with respect to the law.
"Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it" (Ephesians 2:9).
Tell me, would I be loving my neighbor, if I did not tell him the truth about salvation?
"For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that [b]everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life all one has to do is obey God's law and you're in, then I wouldn't be telling the truth.[/b]
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneIn the passage you are quoting (Romans 2:12-14), Paul is talking to Jews about Gentiles--specifically, Gentiles who have received the Holy Spirit, which is only received by those who believe in Him:
Perhaps the point you're missing is that "belief" has to do what is in one's heat, not what one declares.
12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justifie ...[text shortened]... cording to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus. Romans 2:12-14
Originally posted by epiphinehasThe Holy Spirit has been placed in the hearts of ALL men as has the law been written there. One must overcome the desires of the self to be able to read it.
In the passage you are quoting (Romans 2:12-14), Paul is talking to Jews about Gentiles--specifically, Gentiles who have received the Holy Spirit, which is only received by those who believe in Him:
"Anyone who believes in me may come and drink! For the Scriptures declare, ‘Rivers of living water will flow from his heart.’” (W t is simply wrong to claim that belief in Jesus Christ is not necessary for salvation.
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneThe Holy Spirit has been placed in the hearts of ALL men as has the law been written there. One must overcome the desires of the self to be able to read it.
The Holy Spirit has been placed in the hearts of ALL men as has the law been written there. One must overcome the desires of the self to be able to read it.
If one give ones heart to love, compassion, justice, etc., is one not a "believer" in what Christ embodies? Perhaps you're too transfixed on Christ the "figure" instead of what he represents.
...[text shortened]... sus would want? That he wouldn't be pleased with those who follow the will of the Father.
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneYou've shown nothing that refutes this.
The Holy Spirit has been placed in the hearts of ALL men as has the law been written there. One must overcome the desires of the self to be able to read it.
If one give ones heart to love, compassion, justice, etc., is one not a "believer" in what Christ embodies?
You've shown nothing that refutes this. Perhaps you're too transfixed on Christ the us would want? That he wouldn't be pleased with those who follow the will of the Father.
Originally posted by epiphinehasSo long as you consistently hold on to YOUR idea of what constitutes "belief", you'll never be able to see it no matter how much scripture is placed before you.
[b]The Holy Spirit has been placed in the hearts of ALL men as has the law been written there. One must overcome the desires of the self to be able to read it.
Dead wrong. Didn't you notice the passage I just quoted from John? Only those who believe in Jesus Christ receive God's Holy Spirit:
"Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, means" (1 Corinthians 2:13-14).
Please provide scriptural proof for your claims.[/b]
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneIf they mature and overcome the flesh, the spirit springs forth.
So long as you consistently hold on to YOUR idea of what constitutes "belief", you'll never be able to see it no matter how much scripture is placed before you.
The spirit is there. All one need do is look at young children. It's truly marvelous how it comes out from time to time. But the desires of the flesh (world) dominate most by the time they beco ...[text shortened]... what's in your heart and know it is true. Try to use your heart instead of just your mind.