1. Standard membergenius
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    18 Dec '07 16:16
    The doxology of this prayer ("For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever and ever. Amen."😉 is not included in the earliest manuscripts of Matthew or Luke (the two books of the Bible containing the prayer). Why, then, has this become such a standard ending to a prayer given by God. Christains are told, "when you pray...pray like this, Insert the Lord's Prayer here", and yet the we have added to it.

    Is this right? Should we perhaps omit the doxology when saying this prayer?
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    18 Dec '07 16:47
    Originally posted by genius
    Is this right? Should we perhaps omit the doxology when saying this prayer?
    Yes. Remove it right away. Each time the doxology is repeated God becomes enraged, as well he should.
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    18 Dec '07 17:00
    Originally posted by darvlay
    Yes. Remove it right away. Each time the doxology is repeated God becomes enraged, as well he should.
    I thought each time you said it an angel dies.
  4. Standard memberRed Night
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    18 Dec '07 17:05
    Originally posted by genius
    The doxology of this prayer ("For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever and ever. Amen."😉 is not included in the earliest manuscripts of Matthew or Luke (the two books of the Bible containing the prayer). Why, then, has this become such a standard ending to a prayer given by God. Christains are told, "when you pray...pray like this, [i] ...[text shortened]... added to it.

    Is this right? Should we perhaps omit the doxology when saying this prayer?
    Roman Catholics say the lords prayer without the ending.

    Only Protestants, (some protestants), say the doxology.
  5. Standard memberRagnorak
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    18 Dec '07 20:53
    Originally posted by genius
    Should we perhaps omit the doxology when saying this prayer?
    What does God say to you?

    D
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    18 Dec '07 23:20
    I think the "Lord's Prayer" is actually found in the Gospel of John in chapter 17. That is the great prayer that the Lord Jesus prayed which we can say is His prayer.

    When He taught the disciples how to pray, that was more their prayer.

    And repeating it by rote, automatically and formally is not always very helpful. Rather praying from the heart honestly using those matters as an example is better.

    The reciting of the prayer can become spiritually dead. God hates death. He wants us to be living in our worship and full of honesty and spiritual vitality.
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    19 Dec '07 03:57
    Originally posted by Red Night
    Roman Catholics say the lords prayer without the ending.

    Only Protestants, (some protestants), say the doxology.
    This isn't necessarily true. The Catholic Church that I've attended does end it with the doxology.
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    19 Dec '07 03:58
    Originally posted by jaywill
    I think the "Lord's Prayer" is actually found in the Gospel of John in chapter 17. That is the great prayer that the Lord Jesus prayed which we can say is His prayer.

    When He taught the disciples how to pray, that was more their prayer.

    And repeating it by rote, automatically and formally is not always very helpful. Rather praying from the heart hon ...[text shortened]... es death. He wants us to be living in our worship and full of honesty and spiritual vitality.
    Very true
  9. Standard membergenius
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    19 Dec '07 09:25
    Originally posted by jaywill
    I think the "Lord's Prayer" is actually found in the Gospel of John in chapter 17. That is the great prayer that the Lord Jesus prayed which we can say is His prayer.

    When He taught the disciples how to pray, that was more their prayer.

    And repeating it by rote, automatically and formally is not always very helpful. Rather praying from the heart hon ...[text shortened]... es death. He wants us to be living in our worship and full of honesty and spiritual vitality.
    John 17 is a prayer, but it is not the Lord's prayer - the Lord's prayer is found at Matthew 6:9-13 and Luke 11:2-4.
  10. Standard membershavixmir
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    19 Dec '07 13:06
    Originally posted by Red Night
    Roman Catholics say the lords prayer without the ending.

    Only Protestants, (some protestants), say the doxology.
    Quite right. And don't Catholics call it: "The Our Father"?
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    19 Dec '07 14:231 edit
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    Quite right. And don't Catholics call it: "The Our Father"?
    Only Protestants say the ending? Are you sure about that?
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    19 Dec '07 14:32
    So, to summarise:

    Catholic good, Protestant bad.
  13. Standard memberRed Night
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    19 Dec '07 14:40
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    Quite right. And don't Catholics call it: "The Our Father"?
    All the Catholics that I have known call it the "Our Father"

    And none of the services I have attended have ever ended with the doxology.

    So, I think that is a general rule.
  14. Standard membershavixmir
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    19 Dec '07 14:51
    Roman Catholics usually do not add the doxology, "For Thine is the kingdom, power, and glory, forever and ever." However, this doxology, in the form "For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and for ever", is used in the Catholic Mass, separated from the Lord's Prayer by a prayer, spoken or sung by the priest, that elaborates on the final petition, "Deliver us from evil."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord's_Prayer#Versions

    So... that's that sorted then.
  15. England
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    19 Dec '07 14:52
    yes ive heard it the roman faith, but said after a long pause between. but thanks never knew its called the doxology.
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