20 Jul 17
Originally posted by @rajk999Raj,
Your post now . so you dont know the difference between
1. Belief with your mouth
2. Belief with your heart??
Here is a comment from Jesus:
.. This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. (Mark 7:6 KJV)
And there are many such instances where Jesus differentiates between :
1. Proclaiming that you know Him - mouth worship
2. Following and obeying his commandments - believing with your heart.
Of course I know the difference, I am only pointing out that you don't know the difference of what you are talking about with regards Christians in this forum, you don't know what they do apart from posting here, you can't. All anyone can do is talk. I am betting most are not going to put a laundry list together of their good works/deeds that they have done and talk about it here for others to talk about, criticize, mock, etc. (you know this would happen). They (we) are not throwing the pearls out to be trampled under foot, and get the lame reward.
Matthew 6:1-6 New King James Version (NKJV)
Do Good to Please God
6 “Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven. 2 Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 3 But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly.
These are the words of Jesus.
Why don't you give some Christians here the benefit of the doubt, they are walking out their salvation. After all, what you think really does not matter in this instance.
20 Jul 17
Originally posted by @christopher-albonEveryone is a believer. The only question is what each person believes.
Polytheists are believers too.
20 Jul 17
Originally posted by @leunammiThe debate is about what the correct doctrine is with regard to what Christians should do with their lives not about Christians boasting about what they do with their lives. You have the wrong end of the stick.
Raj,
Of course I know the difference, I am only pointing out that you don't know the difference of what you are talking about with regards Christians in this forum, you don't know what they do apart from posting here, you can't. All anyone can do is talk. I am betting most are not going to put a laundry list together of their good works/deeds that the ...[text shortened]... walking out their salvation. After all, what you think really does not matter in this instance.
20 Jul 17
Originally posted by @rajk999I understand testimony. Talk, believe and do are all apart of testimony. You cannot have doing without ever believing, you cannot have believing without ever talking.
Continuing with your Revelation quote. Do you know what is a testimony? There is good testimony and there are bad or worthless testimonies
This Revelation quote is a statement of something GOOD in this case, something a Christian has done that is exemplary, righteous, and obedient to Christ. It is through this doing something good and righteous, that t ...[text shortened]... edience to Christ.
Its the same thing I said. Jesus wants obedience not talk and lip service.
You really are no different than the rest of those that call themselves Christians here, but sometimes I think 'Christian' is a dirty word for you.
You talk, you provide scriptures, you debate just like most everybody else. Nobody knows what good works/deeds that anybody does in their life apart from here, nor should they. But you are so convinced that nobody does these things, good works, why is that?
20 Jul 17
Originally posted by @fmfI beg to differ. But if you want to know what the real debate is, it is about 'The Love of God'.
The debate is about what the correct doctrine is with regard to what Christians should do with their lives not about Christians boasting about what they do with their lives. You have the wrong end of the stick.
Tangents always work their way in, don't they? Holy rabbit hole.
20 Jul 17
1 edit
Originally posted by @leunammiYou really need a course in English comprehension.
I understand testimony. Talk, believe and do are all apart of testimony. You cannot have doing without ever believing, you cannot have believing without ever talking.
You really are no different than the rest of those that call themselves Christians here, but sometimes I think 'Christian' is a dirty word for you.
You talk, you provide scriptures, ...[text shortened]... r should they. But you are so convinced that nobody does these things, good works, why is that?
I never say that nobody does good works. If you can find such a quote from me then please show me.
I say some Christians PREACH THAT NO GOOD WORKS ARE REQUIRED.
20 Jul 17
Originally posted by @leunammiFMF understands what is going on here more than you do.
I beg to differ. But if you want to know what the real debate is, it is about 'The Love of God'.
Tangents always work their way in, don't they? Holy rabbit hole.
I repeat I dont ever talk about peoples works ... mine or anyones for that matter.
I talk about doctrine. The doctrine prevalent among Christians is that good works are not necessary for eternal life.
You are the one that does not understand
20 Jul 17
Originally posted by @leunammiOk lets deal with this what you said
I understand testimony. Talk, believe and do are all apart of testimony. You cannot have doing without ever believing, you cannot have believing without ever talking.
You really are no different than the rest of those that call themselves Christians here, but sometimes I think 'Christian' is a dirty word for you.
You talk, you provide scriptures, ...[text shortened]... r should they. But you are so convinced that nobody does these things, good works, why is that?
You cannot have doing without ever believing, you cannot have believing without ever talking.
Is this somewhere in the Bible?
20 Jul 17
2 edits
Originally posted by @leunammiWhat level of education do you have. I feel as if Im talking to either a smart 12 yr old or a dunce 35 year old. Which are you?
Raj,
Of course I know the difference, I am only pointing out that you don't know the difference of what you are talking about with regards Christians in this forum, you don't know what they do apart from posting here, you can't. All anyone can do is talk. I am betting most are not going to put a laundry list together of their good works/deeds that the ...[text shortened]... walking out their salvation. After all, what you think really does not matter in this instance.
I dont comment on what people do with their personal lives. I speak only about the doctrine they preach, and the prevalent one around here among Christians is that you have to profess your faith in Christ with your mouth and believe it in your heart that he was raised from the dead and you will be saved. PLUS you are saved eternally and not even God can revoke that. no matter what you do you will get eternal life.
The above stated doctrine promotes mouth worship [and its wrong]
To further encourage mouth worship among their followers, they are told that NOTHING ELSE is required of them, as they have assurance of eternal life. [this one promotes even more mouth worship and it is even more wrong]
20 Jul 17
Originally posted by @rajk999Raj, truth is all I want to do is have a civil discussion without hostilities. You have no respect for me (or many others here for that matter) and could care less about what I have to say or why, not agreeing with you only becomes a point of contention and you make that known with your mouth. You want to liken me to a 12 year old or dunce 35 year old? I have better things to do than to banter back and forth with you and try to understand a thing or two.
Ok lets deal with this what you said
You cannot have doing without ever believing, you cannot have believing without ever talking.
Is this somewhere in the Bible?
Maybe some other time it will be different, but that time is not now.
20 Jul 17
2 edits
Originally posted by @leunammiA greater disrespect is your continued misrepresentation what I say. Both FMF and Ghost, two nonChristians have had to correct you on things you say about what I say. But I dont make that an issue or cause it to end the discussion.
Raj, truth is all I want to do is have a civil discussion without hostilities. You have no respect for me (or many others here for that matter) and could care less about what I have to say or why, not agreeing with you only becomes a point of contention and you make that known with your mouth. You want to liken me to a 12 year old or dunce 35 year old? ...[text shortened]... erstand a thing or two.
Maybe some other time it will be different, but that time is not now.
Ok we will continue this discussion in about 10 yrs when you are either 22 or 45 😀
By the way this piece of nonsense
You cannot have doing without ever believing, you cannot have believing without ever talking.
is NOT IN THE BIBLE.
You make up stuff and fool yourself that you are correct.
Lets talk again in 10 years time. Read your bible instead of swallowing church doctrine.
20 Jul 17
Originally posted by @rajk999Good works do not save.
FMF understands what is going on here more than you do.
I repeat I dont ever talk about peoples works ... mine or anyones for that matter.
I talk about doctrine. The doctrine prevalent among Christians is that good works are not necessary for eternal life.
You are the one that does not understand
Not sure why people think this means good works are not neccessary. Faulty logic.
Jesus' sacrifice is what saves. Who does it save? Those who carry out God's commands. If what is in your heart is of God then you will show that your life is pleasing to God which is by definition good works.
If your definition of good is the world's definition of good then what you believe to be good works are actually not good works.
20 Jul 17
Originally posted by @eladarJesus saves of course.
Good works do not save.
Not sure why people think this means good works are not neccessary. Faulty logic.
Jesus' sacrifice is what saves. Who does it save? Those who carry out God's commands. If what is in your heart is of God then you will show that your life is pleasing to God which is by definition good works.
If your definition of good is the world's definition of good then what you believe to be good works are actually not good works.
Jesus said those who he will welcome into the Kingdom of God are those who do good works.
My definition of good works is the same as what Jesus preached