The morality of Islamophobia

@fmf said
I don't believe Jesus is who Christians believe he is. Should Christians "hate" this belief of mine?

No, not the belief, but the consequences of that belief might I hate.

Does that offend you?

@josephw said
Morality isn't a sign on the wall that reads "thou shall not covet". Although it is.

To covet may well be a "sin" according to your religious beliefs, but I do not think "to covet" is immoral.

@josephw said
No, not the belief, but the consequences of that belief might I hate.

@fmf said
I don't believe Jesus is who Christians believe he is. Should Christians "hate" this belief of mine?

@josephw said
No, not the belief, but the consequences of that belief might I hate.

What consequence of me not believing Jesus is who Christians believe he is might you hate?

@fmf said
Moral or immoral actions may be preceded by certain thoughts, but I think "morality" is about behaviour and not thoughts.

You may have a point in the strict sense of morality being the lense through which behavior is viewed in its outward expression.

Billy Graham said, or was it Martin Luther?, "you can't stop a bird from flying over your head, but you can stop him from building a nest in your hair".

Thoughts sometimes come unbidden, but in the aggregate I refer to proverbs 4:23.
Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.

The heart and mind, biblically, are virtually synonymous.

@josephw said
You may have a point in the strict sense of morality being the lense through which behavior is viewed in its outward expression.

For me, it is the regular and practical sense and not a "strict sense". I believe "morality" and "sin" need to be separated and seen as being different things, despite overlaps. "Thoughtcrimes" exist in the realm of "sin".

@fmf said
What consequence of me not believing Jesus is who Christians believe he is might you hate?

First of all, don't believe a word of what "Christians" say until you confirm it against what the scriptures tell you.

What do you know about what the scriptures say about "who" Jesus is, and what do the scriptures say about the "consequences" of not believing in him are?

@josephw said
Billy Graham said, or was it Martin Luther?, "you can't stop a bird from flying over your head, but you can stop him from building a nest in your hair".

Billy Graham thinking about killing a million Vietnamese is not governed by morality. But Billy Graham sending a memo to Nixon urging him to take deliberate action to kill a million Vietnamese men, women and children ~ now that WAS morally unsound.

Martin Luther's vicious and depraved anti-semitism was not a moral issue as long as it remained in his thoughts. When he wrote about it and urged Christians to hate Jews, then it was a moral issue.

@fmf said
For me, it is the regular and practical sense and not a "strict sense". I believe "morality" and "sin" need to be separated and seen as being different things, despite overlaps. "Thoughtcrimes" exist in the realm of "sin".

To me sinful thoughts translate into immoral behavior.

I don't distinguish between "sin" and "immoral".

What is moral is righteous. What is immoral is sin. Whether a thought or a deed.

@josephw said
What do you know about what the scriptures say about "who" Jesus is, and what do the scriptures say about the "consequences" of not believing in him are?

Christians believe Jesus was the Son of God, the messiah, a supernatural being etc. etc. etc.

What consequence of me not believing all this might you hate?

@josephw said
No, not the belief, but the consequences of that belief might I hate.

What exactly might you "hate"?

@fmf said
Billy Graham thinking about killing a million Vietnamese is not governed by morality. But Billy Graham sending a memo to Nixon urging him to take deliberate action to kill a million Vietnamese men, women and children ~ now that WAS morally unsound.

Martin Luther's vicious and depraved anti-semitism was not a moral issue as long as it remained in his thoughts. When he wrote about it and urged Christians to hate Jews, then it was a moral issue.

Oops! I guess I stepped on a land mine. ✌️

I'd have to see the memo.

And yes, in his old age Martin Luther came out against the Jews. In fact his diatribe laid the groundwork for much of the anti-semitism of Adolf Hitler, and others.

I'm going to have to continue this tomorrow.

@fmf said
What exactly might you "hate"?

What I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

Goodnight

@josephw said
I don't distinguish between "sin" and "immoral".

I know.

But I don't think "sin" exists, except in the minds of theists.

@josephw said
What I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

@fmf said
I don't believe Jesus is who Christians believe he is. Should Christians "hate" this belief of mine?

@josephw said
No, not the belief, but the consequences of that belief might I hate.

Once again: What consequence of me not believing Jesus is who Christians believe he is might you hate?

@josephw said
yes, in his old age Martin Luther came out against the Jews.

If his thoughts had remained in his mind and not communicated to others, would they - to your way of thinking - have been "sinful" regardless?