The necessary characteristics of a god

Originally posted by Agerg
In this thread I'm making the (charitable) assumption (for the sake of argument) that
1) some sort of creator entity (a god) exists; and that
2) the universe as it exists today would not be possible without its handiwork in some way, behind the scenes.

Independently of any holy books (and to be fair, any postulated theories of the universe's origins on t one dynamic universe equipped with physical laws that govern how it changes - nothing more.

That is an absolutely (and obviously) correct statement.

If you'll excuse me, you've opened up a subject that ties into something I've been giving a lot of private thought to lately. So many skeptics assert that the Christian God couldn't possibly exist because no real God would ever behave the way He is purported to behave.

My answer to that is, what makes any of us an authority on how a Creator should act? Among other things obviously--the bible says we have a Creator and that Creator has a personality. Again (to the skeptics): Why must the Christian God be completely disqualified, simply because He has a personality? It follows (though not many skeptics would admit such in so many words) that when you boil it all down, a skeptic disqualifies God, based on His purported personality, because.... that skeptic doesn't LIKE God's personality.

Once we drill down and figure out that the disqualification comes from the skeptic's own likes and dislikes, then you can see that the argument is based on emotions... not facts.

Originally posted by galveston75
He must have no restrictions on any level of his existance, power or knowledge.....
If he lacked in anything he would not be a true God.

Let the set of all things creators of universes can do be ordered as: {create a dynamic universe, something_2, something_3, ..., something_n, ...} Why is it the case that if we take any particular god and restrict its capabilities to the following: {create a dynamic universe} that it fails the necessary requirements for it to be a creator of the universe (i.e. a god - not necessarily the god you would like)?

Remember, I asked you to justify your answers if they were extra to mine.

Originally posted by sumydid
That is an absolutely (and obviously) correct statement.

If you'll excuse me, you've opened up a subject that ties into something I've been giving a lot of private thought to lately. So many skeptics assert that the Christian God couldn't possibly exist because no real God would ever behave the way He is purported to behave.

My answer to that is, what ...[text shortened]... likes and dislikes, then you can see that the argument is based on emotions... not facts.

You went off at a complete tangent there... I won't ask you to re-read the OP and try again, you'll do the same next time.

Originally posted by Agerg
In this thread I'm making the (charitable) assumption (for the sake of argument) that
1) some sort of creator entity (a god) exists; and that
2) the universe as it exists today would not be possible without its handiwork in some way, behind the scenes.

Independently of any holy books (and to be fair, any postulated theories of the universe's origins on ...[text shortened]... sical law of the universe (that it is resilient to change unless it is acted upon externally)

It is not necessary that god be a transcendent creator god at all. The universe need not be the handiwork of god, but, rather, is synonymous with god.

Originally posted by rwingett
It is not necessary that god be a transcendent creator god at all. The universe need not be the handiwork of god, but, rather, is synonymous with god.

That's a fair point (I presume you refer to the deist formulation of god?), though for the purposes of this thread (to cater for the majority of theists - hoping at least one will play along) I'm treating it as a given that some sort of transcendent creator does exist.

Originally posted by Agerg
That's a fair point (I presume you refer to the deist formulation of god?), though for the purposes of this thread (to cater for the majority of theists - hoping at least one will play along) I'm treating it as a given that some sort of transcendent creator does exist.

I'm referring to a pantheist conception of god. A deist god would still be a transcendent god who is distinct/separate from the universe itself. A pantheist conception of god holds that the natural universe and god are synonymous.

Originally posted by rwingett
I'm referring to a pantheist conception of god. A deist god would still be a transcendent god who is distinct/separate from the universe itself. A pantheist conception of god holds that the natural universe and god are synonymous.

Fair enough, for some reason I was juggling the two (deist/pantheist) in my head and without checking I ruled out the latter and instead opted for deist - thanks for the correction.

Originally posted by rwingett
I'm referring to a pantheist conception of god. A deist god would still be a transcendent god who is distinct/separate from the universe itself. A pantheist conception of god holds that the natural universe and god are synonymous.

Given the strong preexisting semantic associations we have with the words "god/God and "universe", is there one word/term that can be used to replace "god" and "universe", such as "all" or "the all? If so, would it better represent our proper relationship with god/the universe, to use "the All" (upper case)?

Originally posted by Agerg
Let the set of all things creators of universes can do be ordered as: {create a dynamic universe, something_2, something_3, ..., something_n, ...} Why is it the case that if we take any particular god and restrict its capabilities to the following: {create a dynamic universe} that it fails the necessary requirements for it to be a creator of the universe (i.e. ...[text shortened]... od you would like)?

Remember, I asked you to justify your answers if they were extra to mine.

I would think those things I said would naturally have to be justified in order for this God to really be a God.

Originally posted by Agerg
In this thread I'm making the (charitable) assumption (for the sake of argument) that
1) some sort of creator entity (a god) exists; and that
2) the universe as it exists today would not be possible without its handiwork in some way, behind the scenes.

Independently of any holy books (and to be fair, any postulated theories of the universe's origins on ...[text shortened]... sical law of the universe (that it is resilient to change unless it is acted upon externally)

It must be a dick.

Because, you know, if power corrupts....

Originally posted by josephw
(The) "creator entity" is indefinable by creation.

If so, the Bible had a real bad editor.

Originally posted by galveston75
I would think those things I said would naturally have to be justified in order for this God to really be a God.

Not justified to me - I don't believe your god exists - nor so I see any reason to. Care to approach this thread in the mindset with which I intended? Recap - I' talking about the minimal set set of characteristics required of an entity that could create this universe - not the characteristics that make such a god identify with that you believe in.

Originally posted by Agerg
Not justified to me - I don't believe your god exists - nor so I see any reason to. Care to approach this thread in the mindset with which I intended? Recap - I' talking about the minimal set set of characteristics required of an entity that could create this universe - not the characteristics that make such a god identify with that you believe in.

Well since we both believe differently, our opinions or thoughts are going to be different then mine. I can't change your ideas as you can't change mine.

Originally posted by galveston75
Well since we both believe differently, our opinions or thoughts are going to be different then mine. I can't change your ideas as you can't change mine.

So let me get this straight...if I was to ask you what is the minimal set of properties required for a meal to fill you up you would only be able to answer with *your favourite food*!??? Can you not for one moment cast away your bias and think objectively!? I am meeting you half way by supposing some god exists.

Originally posted by Agerg
In this thread I'm making the (charitable) assumption (for the sake of argument) that
1) some sort of creator entity (a god) exists; and that
2) the universe as it exists today would not be possible without its handiwork in some way, behind the scenes.

Independently of any holy books (and to be fair, any postulated theories of the universe's origins on ...[text shortened]... sical law of the universe (that it is resilient to change unless it is acted upon externally)

Perhaps this link will help you find the answer you seek.

http://www.allaboutgod.com/attributes-of-god.htm