1. Wat?
    Joined
    16 Aug '05
    Moves
    76863
    27 Mar '11 13:26
    is for those who feel a need to move on to another place, because they can't believe this time IS our run, and is for those who need to have a need for 'forgiveness'. Religions are based upon the need for forgiveness of sins.

    Being a Buddhist, and not having a God, in current times, I do not live my life wishing for forgiveness, as I spend too much time upon self-improvement so I am worthy for others, even if that is to be simply in their presence without negative effect.

    I haven't denounced a God, as Buddhist never have and as you know; we wait in expectation for scientific proof that there is a God - although we also feel it will never happen, AFTER 3,000 years of waiting.

    I wonder what it is like to live in fear of sin, when all humanity do generally the same? Of course, there are the abhorrents who are ill, commmit murder and rape - but a religionist can't say, if that man was for example a Christian, he wasn't made in God's image - or can he? Well surely he must?

    I genuinely wonder what it is like to live in fear of commiting a sin, when in Buddhism sins don't exist, but are actions whichare a direct uneqivocally bad reaction that affects another.

    I don't shake in my boots when I respond too quickly, but I know I have reacted maybe too quickly, and that is my time to revisit myself, meditate, and slow down so not to react quickly again, but fathom some depths.

    So is a need for a God a need to toe the line or can that be done without a God also?

    -m.
  2. Standard memberKellyJay
    Walk your Faith
    USA
    Joined
    24 May '04
    Moves
    148423
    27 Mar '11 13:53
    Originally posted by mikelom
    is for those who feel a need to move on to another place, because they can't believe this time IS our run, and is for those who need to have a need for 'forgiveness'. Religions are based upon the need for forgiveness of sins.

    Being a Buddhist, and not having a God, in current times, I do not live my life wishing for forgiveness, as I spend too much time u ...[text shortened]... a need for a God a need to toe the line or can that be done without a God also?

    -m.
    Can what be done without God? Toe the line is that living one's life as one
    should? Religions are based upon a lot of things, some are as you say, but
    religion basically defines or sets the boundaries for us, or grants us some
    type of justification for our actions, gives us some type of worth, and sets up
    the boundaries of the universe and defines our part in it, in some
    understandable way. Some belief systems use God, gods, or no gods
    whatsoever, but there you go!

    The toeing the line, or living as one should means that there is some type
    of boundaries with our behavior that we should be adhering to, some type
    of standard that we can either meet or strive towards which also means we
    can fail and come up short with as well. If there isn’t a standard of behavior
    to be concerned about, than anything goes.
    Kelly
  3. Joined
    29 Dec '08
    Moves
    6788
    27 Mar '11 16:56
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Can what be done without God? Toe the line is that living one's life as one
    should? Religions are based upon a lot of things, some are as you say, but
    religion basically defines or sets the boundaries for us, or grants us some
    type of justification for our actions, gives us some type of worth, and sets up
    the boundaries of the universe and defines our p ...[text shortened]... well. If there isn’t a standard of behavior
    to be concerned about, than anything goes.
    Kelly
    Quote: "...religion basically defines or sets the boundaries for us, or grants us some
    type of justification for our actions, gives us some type of worth, and sets up
    the boundaries of the universe and defines our part in it, in some
    understandable way."

    Another way to look at it is that historically, societies have enshrined their moral codes in religion, (e.g., in their holy books) and as well, their understanding of their place in the universe. This enhances the commitment of the people to the moral code.

    You are right to say if there isn't a standard of behavior to be concerned about, then anything goes. But those who live that way will soon enough be concerned about being confronted by people who recognize a need for a standard of behavior. Anarchy is self-extinguishing, I think.
  4. Standard memberKellyJay
    Walk your Faith
    USA
    Joined
    24 May '04
    Moves
    148423
    27 Mar '11 20:05
    Originally posted by JS357
    Quote: "...religion basically defines or sets the boundaries for us, or grants us some
    type of justification for our actions, gives us some type of worth, and sets up
    the boundaries of the universe and defines our part in it, in some
    understandable way."

    Another way to look at it is that historically, societies have enshrined their moral codes in religio ...[text shortened]... ople who recognize a need for a standard of behavior. Anarchy is self-extinguishing, I think.
    "Historically, societies have..."

    That basically assumes societes are the driving force behind it all not God.
    Kelly
  5. Joined
    29 Dec '08
    Moves
    6788
    27 Mar '11 20:24
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    "Historically, societies have..."

    That basically assumes societes are the driving force behind it all not God.
    Kelly
    I don't mean to imply that societies and not God, are behind it, and I realize that I am perhaps not supposed to be commenting in this thread based on who mikelom invited to participate.

    God could still be the driving force behind it, having given humans the ability to learn from experience and having given them the ability to form an institution like religion in which to enshrine their moral codes. But also in deference to mikelom, what I suggest does not necessitate that God or a god be the driving force behind it. I don't think the development of moral codes and religions proves it one way or the other.
  6. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
    Brisbane,QLD
    Joined
    11 Apr '09
    Moves
    91563
    27 Mar '11 20:30
    Originally posted by mikelom
    is for those who feel a need to move on to another place, because they can't believe this time IS our run, and is for those who need to have a need for 'forgiveness'. Religions are based upon the need for forgiveness of sins.

    Being a Buddhist, and not having a God, in current times, I do not live my life wishing for forgiveness, as I spend too much time u ...[text shortened]... a need for a God a need to toe the line or can that be done without a God also?

    -m.
    I dont know about a need for a god, but the word "god" is very handy.
    The evolution of that word has done some good, and where would we be without it?

    Maybe better off, but the veils of ignorance are lifted by right thinking, right speech and right action. No god required. Still, a good word.
  7. Jo'Burg South Africa
    Joined
    20 Mar '06
    Moves
    45412
    10 Apr '11 21:28
    Originally posted by mikelom
    is for those who feel a need to move on to another place, because they can't believe this time IS our run, and is for those who need to have a need for 'forgiveness'. Religions are based upon the need for forgiveness of sins.

    Being a Buddhist, and not having a God, in current times, I do not live my life wishing for forgiveness, as I spend too much time u ...[text shortened]... a need for a God a need to toe the line or can that be done without a God also?

    -m.
    This is why the world is going down under cause everyone wants to have their own run. Everybody wants to rule the world (Thinking about that song 80's - just saying). If no one is guiding the people of the earth, it will be like leaving first graders alone in the classroom - WHAT A MESS!

    It will be selfish for such a person to have friends, family and children cause what happens if the road gets rough? I am saying this because a person who believes this time IS our run ONLY THINKS OF HIMSELF AND NO ONE ELSE.
  8. Standard memberKellyJay
    Walk your Faith
    USA
    Joined
    24 May '04
    Moves
    148423
    10 Apr '11 21:32
    Originally posted by JS357
    I don't mean to imply that societies and not God, are behind it, and I realize that I am perhaps not supposed to be commenting in this thread based on who mikelom invited to participate.

    God could still be the driving force behind it, having given humans the ability to learn from experience and having given them the ability to form an institution like relig ...[text shortened]... it. I don't think the development of moral codes and religions proves it one way or the other.
    True people could be the force God uses to do what he wills.
    Kelly
  9. Joined
    27 Sep '06
    Moves
    9651
    10 Apr '11 23:06
    Originally posted by mikelom
    is for those who feel a need to move on to another place, because they can't believe this time IS our run, and is for those who need to have a need for 'forgiveness'. Religions are based upon the need for forgiveness of sins.

    Being a Buddhist, and not having a God, in current times, I do not live my life wishing for forgiveness, as I spend too much time u ...[text shortened]... a need for a God a need to toe the line or can that be done without a God also?

    -m.
    "So is a need for a God a need to toe the line or can that be done without a God also?"

    If there is a creator, then everything belongs to Him. Including you. But you must come to Him on His terms.
  10. Houston, Texas
    Joined
    28 Sep '10
    Moves
    14347
    10 Apr '11 23:35
    Good post Mike.

    "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."
    --Bertrand Russell
  11. Joined
    27 Sep '06
    Moves
    9651
    11 Apr '11 00:02
    Matthew 11:25 - At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
  12. Standard memberrvsakhadeo
    rvsakhadeo
    India
    Joined
    19 Feb '09
    Moves
    36544
    17 Apr '11 15:20
    Originally posted by josephw
    Matthew 11:25 - At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
    The meek shall inherit the earth !
    In Hinduism,the Upanishads say that people who think that they know,do not know anything ! What king size egos some people have when,in reality,they know next to nothing.
    There is a story in Muslim theology about a shepherd who, on being told about Allah by a Kazi, was very much moved and being a simple soul, said that he will wash Allah's feet when he meets Him, he will give honey and bread for Allah to eat and so on,when the Kazi yelled at him saying that what kind of idiot the shepherd was to talk about Allah in such terms. Allah the creator of universe does not require to eat the bread and honey offered by the shepherd etc. The shepherd left in tears asking Allah to forgive him,when a great voice thundered from heavens and asked the Kazi whether he was given knowledge only to insult/belittle simple devotees like the shepherd. Allah told the Kazi that he will rot in hell for what he had done !
  13. Standard memberrvsakhadeo
    rvsakhadeo
    India
    Joined
    19 Feb '09
    Moves
    36544
    17 Apr '11 15:46
    Originally posted by mikelom
    is for those who feel a need to move on to another place, because they can't believe this time IS our run, and is for those who need to have a need for 'forgiveness'. Religions are based upon the need for forgiveness of sins.

    Being a Buddhist, and not having a God, in current times, I do not live my life wishing for forgiveness, as I spend too much time u ...[text shortened]... a need for a God a need to toe the line or can that be done without a God also?

    -m.
    Humans required God firstly because they were scared of the hostile world in which they were relatively weak. They wanted safety and felt that a Saviour will guard them,the same one who must have created the Sun and Moon and starry heavens above.
    After a time, they must have started living together and wanted God to make the Society a stable one,a Society where a moral law will prevail and made God the custodian of their morals and arbiter of their destinies in their afterlife. As Voltaire said he wanted God to exist so that his wife,his tailor,his lawyer will be faithful to him.
    But then there were many who wondered about deeper questions like where they came from and why are they here and where they will be going and what is the nature of Reality and so on.
    They came to a conclusion about God that he/she/it permeates the known and unknown universe and we are as if sparks from a fire coming from the fire and destined to return to it. They conceded that God cannot be properly described,let alone understood but felt an increasing attraction to him/her/ it.
  14. Joined
    26 May '08
    Moves
    2120
    17 Apr '11 15:59
    I think the title of this thread “The need for God in general” is quite apt but perhaps not necessarily for exactly the reason intended; the “need for a God” is a purely emotional need.
  15. Standard memberrvsakhadeo
    rvsakhadeo
    India
    Joined
    19 Feb '09
    Moves
    36544
    17 Apr '11 16:26
    Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
    I think the title of this thread “The need for God in general” is quite apt but perhaps not necessarily for exactly the reason intended; the “need for a God” is a purely emotional need.
    So be it ! Emotions are as much a genuine part of human life as cold Reason is. You cannot ignore the need to satisfy that aching feeling in one's heart/that pull towards one's wife/husband ,toward one's mother/father,your kid-- can you? Many millions of humans feel this way also for God.
    A story is told that a person tells a saint that he is feeling down because his pet parrot has died. The saint asks him whether he has felt the same sense of bereavement when cockroaches/rats in his house have also died since long and in dozens. On being replied that no,he has never felt sad about them,the saint tells him that since they were not"his" rats/cockroaches as against"his" parrot. Since the emotional attachment was there with the parrot,the sadness was there. The saint says that unless we feel emotionally attached God,we will never even acknowledge his existence,let alone be devoted to him.
    But,yes,even intellectuals of all walks of life feel an intellectual necessity for God.
Back to Top