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No, not Christianity. No, not Judaism.
May I present, 'Hinduism' the first true monotheistic religion. But Hinduism is polytheistic I hear you cry. - Consider this quote from the Vedas:
'Ishwar alone provides true knowledge to truth seekers. He alone is promoter of knowledge and motivates virtuous people into noble actions to seek bliss. He alone is the creator and manager of the world. Hence never worship anyone else except one and only Ishwar.'
Or what about Rigveda 10.48.1:
'Ishwar alone is omnipresent and manager of entire universe. He alone provides victory and eternal cause of world. All souls should look up only to Him in same manner as children look up to their Father. He alone provides for our sustenance and bliss.'
Or indeed:
Atharvaveda 13.4.16-21
'He is neither two, nor three, nor four, nor five, nor six, nor seven, nor eight, nor nine, nor ten. He is, on contrary, One and Only One. There is no Ishwar except Him. All devtas reside within Him and are controlled by him. So He alone should be worshiped, none else.'
One of the most revolutionary landmark established by Swami Dayanand was that the Vedas preach Monotheism. It means only one God. Swami Ji proved that in Vedas God is one and he has countless qualities. He is called by different names .These names also apply on different material entities.
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-content-of-the-Vedas
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The oldest monotheism has to be that believed by the first human beings.
Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel, Enosh, Enoch, Noah etc. in the earliest generations of mankind knew of one God. Not that they always liked Him. But they knew of one God.
And for generations after people began to spread across the earth after the flood for some time at least nations knew of one God. And that would include people migrating down into India, China, Europe, Africa, the Americas, or Australia or wherever else they spread out on the planet to go.
That very ancient religious text would speak like monotheistic-ally should not be a big surprise. And it was not "Judaism" really that Cain and Abel practiced. Nor can we really say it was Judaism that Noah believed when by faith he responded to coming world judgement by making an ark.
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14 Aug 19
@sonship saidYour perception is confined within the Abrahamic framework. Why couldn't the first human beings be the ones referred to in the Vedas? They also contain a creation narrative.
The oldest monotheism has to be that believed by the first human beings.
Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel, Enosh, Enoch, Noah etc. in the earliest generations of mankind knew of one God. Not that they always liked Him. But they knew of one God.
And for generations after people began to spread across the earth after the flood for some time at least nations knew of one Go ...[text shortened]... as Judaism that Noah believed when by faith he responded to coming world judgement by making an ark.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidGee, that is pretty much what a boss I used to have told me. But then again, she was a Hindu.
No, not Christianity. No, not Judaism.
May I present, 'Hinduism' the first true monotheistic religion. But Hinduism is polytheistic I hear you cry. - Consider this quote from the Vedas:
'Ishwar alone provides true knowledge to truth seekers. He alone is promoter of knowledge and motivates virtuous people into noble actions to seek bliss. He alone is the creator ...[text shortened]... so apply on different material entities.
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-content-of-the-Vedas
@ghost-of-a-duke saidOf the ancient religions we have left Hinduism and the various religions derived from the Bible.
No, not Christianity. No, not Judaism.
May I present, 'Hinduism' the first true monotheistic religion. But Hinduism is polytheistic I hear you cry. - Consider this quote from the Vedas:
'Ishwar alone provides true knowledge to truth seekers. He alone is promoter of knowledge and motivates virtuous people into noble actions to seek bliss. He alone is the creator ...[text shortened]... so apply on different material entities.
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-content-of-the-Vedas
In fact, pretty much all religions are derived from the Bible as world religions are dominated by the Bible.
It's a good thing to that these only remain considering that at one time the world was full of polytheistic religions engaged in child sacrifice.
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14 Aug 19
@whodey saidOh dear.
Of the ancient religions we have left Hinduism and the various religions derived from the Bible.
In fact, pretty much all religions are derived from the Bible as world religions are dominated by the Bible.
It's a good thing to that these only remain considering that at one time the world was full of polytheistic religions engaged in child sacrifice.
14 Aug 19
@ghost-of-a-duke saidThere is no single story. There are many variations to their story of creation
Your perception is confined within the Abrahamic framework. Why couldn't the first human beings be the ones referred to in the Vedas? They also contain a creation narrative.
https://www.dailyo.in/variety/hindusim-world-creation-universe-brahma-vishu-shiva/story/1/19522.html
Because Hinduism is plural, with a vast collection of customs and beliefs of numerous communities, over many periods of history, there is no single story of creation. There are many stories, some from the Vedas, some from the Brahmanas, some from the Puranas; some are philosophical, based on concepts, and others are narratives based on characters. One can sense something common in all, but there is a great deal of variations.
The fundamental difference between the story of creation in Hinduism and Abrahamic religions is that Hinduism - like Buddhism and Jainism - views the world as eternal, going through phases of creation and destruction. So, beginning refers to the beginning of a phase, not beginning of the world itself. In Abrahamic mythology, the world comes into being from nothingness by the will of God; and it will end in nothingness. There is a starting and an end point. A segment, essentially. In Hinduism, it is a line, eternal and even repetitive. This difference in the notion of time, explains the difference in the creation of myths. So, while there is a definitive Genesis in Jewish, Christian and Islamic traditions, there isn’t one in Hinduism.
In Hinduism, when we speak of "creation", we have to clarify, are we speaking of the birth of matter, or birth of consciousness, or birth of living creatures, or birth of culture.
brahma_091517012345.jpg
In Tantras, we are told that matter came first as the Goddess, and from her came the mind, taking three male forms: Brahma, the priest; Vishnu, the king; Shiva, the ascetic. (Credit: Wikimedia Commons)
In early Vedic hymns, society is an organism (purusha) created by the coming together of four different kinds of humans: the knowledge-keepers form the head, the land-controllers form the arms, the market-controllers make up the trunk, and service-providers make up the feet. Society is also divided along these lines. So union and separation become key themes.
In later Puranic traditions, when we refer to Brahma as the creator, we are referring to the birth of human culture, through the ritual of culture. Culture goes through four phases of childhood (Krita), youth (Treta), maturity (Dvapara) and old age (Kali) before dying (Pralaya) after which there is rebirth. The death is imagined as a flood, and the only thing that survives is the first human, Manu, and the Vedas, saved by Vishnu. This is a recurring event.
Brahma is also called Prajapati, the father of all living creatures. And so from his mind are created "mind-born" sons, the sages, referring to asexual reproduction. After which come sons who marry women and produce children. Rishi Kashyapa, son of Brahma, marries many women who give birth to different kinds of creatures, according to Puranas. Timi gives birth to fishes, Kadru to snakes and Vinata to birds. But it is never clear where the women come from: are they from Brahma’s body or elsewhere? The Brahma, and all male forms, seem like metaphors for the mind that is planted in matter (represented as women) to create embodied life.
This union of a male and female form, of mind and matter, is a recurring theme in Puranic tradition, especially after the rise of Tantra. Shiva cannot create the world without Shakti; without her, he starves. This world of Shiva and Shakti is nature. In the Gita, this duality is denied. Krishna claims that he is the source of life, that he has two "wombs" (yoni), which are mind and matter. Some people prefer using the word consciousness instead of mind.
What comes first, mind or matter? In the old Vedic hymns, over 3,000 years old, the most famous "creation" hymn is highly sceptical if this question can ever be answered for even the "gods came later". This scepticism is found in Upanishads too, although many attempts are made.
Later, in Tantras, we are told that matter came first as the Goddess, and from her came the mind, taking three male forms: Brahma, the priest; Vishnu, the king; Shiva, the ascetic. Brahma sought control of the Goddess, and was beheaded. Shiva sought to reject the Goddess and was enchanted and turned into husband. Vishnu became caretaker as well as beloved of the Goddess. Brahma’s desire to control the Goddess is given as the reason why he is not worshipped.
However, in the Puranas, mind came first. The world comes into being when Vishnu awakens and from his navel rises a lotus in which sits Brahma who feels alone and afraid. Unaware of his origins, he creates various living creatures from his mind. And assumes he is the creator, another reason why he is not worshipped.
Vishnu worshippers, who became dominant 1,000 years ago, insisted that the world comes into being when Vishnu awakens and ceases to be when Vishnu sleeps. It is he who brings the world out from the bottom of the sea, and enables Lakshmi to be churned out from the ocean of milk. Brahma sits on the lotus that rises from Vishnu's navel.
Shiva worshippers rejected this idea and tell the story of the pillar of fire, embodiment of consciousness, that has no beginning or end, whose tip Brahma could not find when he took the form of a swan, and whose base Vishnu could not find when he took the form of a boar. Thus, Shiva is the infinite origin around which all finite forms take shape.
These myriad ways of looking at creation open up our mind to various possibilities and do not fix it to one way of looking the world. Thus, the dynamic diversity of Hinduism manifests itself oneself once again.
Also read: Why Hanuman Chalisa is the most powerful expression of personal Hinduism
@galveston75 saidIt has been suggested that this was done at the Council of Nicea. Men determined that Jesus needed to be Divine as they were assembling the bible and creating Christianity.
So with this thought of God being 1 God in many beliefs and just as the bible states clearly, how did the Christian religions of today manage to switch their god to 3? Don't really need to high jack this thread but food for thought.....
It's a very strong case that Jesus did not view Himself as God.
@chaney3
the text, if accepted, shows clearly that jesus saw himself as the son of the father.
he inquired of the father multiple times.
the mormons do not accept the trinity and for good scriptural reason.
jesus never made inquiry to the "three" when he asked or prayed to or about the father.
the mormons see jesus and the father as two seperate beings and the holy ghost as a force and not as a being.
the catholic church ( the council of nicea ) invented alot.
14 Aug 19
@chaney3 saidYou are correct on this. Good understanding.....
It has been suggested that this was done at the Council of Nicea. Men determined that Jesus needed to be Divine as they were assembling the bible and creating Christianity.
It's a very strong case that Jesus did not view Himself as God.
14 Aug 19
@mister-moggy saidAnother great answer....
@chaney3
the text, if accepted, shows clearly that jesus saw himself as the son of the father.
he inquired of the father multiple times.
the mormons do not accept the trinity and for good scriptural reason.
jesus never made inquiry to the "three" when he asked or prayed to or about the father.
the mormons see jesus and the father as two seperate beings a ...[text shortened]... ghost as a force and not as a being.
the catholic church ( the council of nicea ) invented alot.
15 Aug 19
@ghost-of-a-duke saidYeah, what you ate talking about concerning Hinduism is basically henotheism.
No, not Christianity. No, not Judaism.
May I present, 'Hinduism' the first true monotheistic religion. But Hinduism is polytheistic I hear you cry. - Consider this quote from the Vedas:
'Ishwar alone provides true knowledge to truth seekers. He alone is promoter of knowledge and motivates virtuous people into noble actions to seek bliss. He alone is the creator ...[text shortened]... so apply on different material entities.
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-content-of-the-Vedas
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henotheism
It is not uncommon for Hindus to be devoted to a single God and believe that other gods are mere avatars of that God as well.
Still, Hindu texts are highly contradictory and you could quote the Rg Veda and declare that all that Hindus really are is people that worship fire, but that is a gross over simplification.
Thank God Wikipedia isn't fully under the influence of hindu fanatics....
Here's something about the Rg Veda.
The oldest layers of the Rigveda Samhita are among the oldest extant texts in any Indo-European language, perhaps of similar age as certain Hittite texts.[8] Philological and linguistic evidence indicates that the bulk of the Rigveda Samhita was composed in the northwestern region of the Indian subcontinent, most likely between c. 1500 and 1200 BC,[9][10][11] although a wider approximation of c. 1700–1100 BC has also been given.[12][13][note 1] The initial codification of the Rigveda took place during the early Kuru kingdom (c. 1200–900 BC).[18]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigveda
What we have proof of is thst the Rg Veda is younger than Moses and the exodus or the same age. It's younger than the myth of Gilgamesh. But, if we believe the Hindus, it's actually like 70,000 years old or something and has been transmitted just orally.
But we know the Mahabharata isn't accurate, so why would we believe what they say about their Rg Veda?
Also, Hinduism experienced massive changes like the Bhakti revolution which occurred far more recently, and the Hindu pantheon is mixed up in many places and full of competing stories. Perhaps it's even better to consider Hinduism a series of religions and not a single religion.
Big and beautiful topic.
@chaney3 said“I and the father are one”
It has been suggested that this was done at the Council of Nicea. Men determined that Jesus needed to be Divine as they were assembling the bible and creating Christianity.
It's a very strong case that Jesus did not view Himself as God.
“When you have seen me you have seen the father”
Jesus.