The Only Issue

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Maybe this would be easier if I made a list.

*** STUFF I DECIDED RE: NOT BEING A CHRISTIAN ANYMORE ***
I decided to stop going to church.
I decided to quit praying.
I decided to accept sources of morality other than the Bible.

*** STUFF I DID [b]NOT DECIDE ***
I no longer believed there was a heaven and a hell.
I no longer believed there w ...[text shortened]... l.
I no longer believed that everything the Bible claimed was morally wrong was actually wrong.[/b]

"NOT BEING A CHRISTIAN ANYMORE"

.... a member of Christ's Royal Family for twenty years who decided to get out of His family? How is that accomplished?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Here in the US, the Powerball lottery has reached a dizzying height of $400 million (US), making it the sixth highest prize in lottery history should a winner be found on the next draw, Wednesday February 19.

That cash pay out is $227 million.
$227.8 million, actually.
That $.8 million is nearly six times my yearly salary, so the $227 million would be ...[text shortened]... e day, I know--- literally KNOW--- I ain't winning crap.

But I still buy a ticket every week.

We are capable of acting against our own beliefs. We all do it.

I have never bought a lottery ticket, but I have gambled (Vegas and online poker) before and lost some money.

All this just proves we're not Vulcans - beings of pure logic. Human emotions and desires also guide our decisions.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"NOT BEING A CHRISTIAN ANYMORE"

.... a member of Christ's Royal Family for twenty years who decided to get out of His family? How is that accomplished?

It's actually not that hard. I was in a transition period; I had moved to a new town, and was half-heartedly trying new churches without much feeling of a bond with any of them. My real family still accepted me despite my change of belief. So in reality I lost nothing.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
It's actually not that hard. I was in a transition period; I had moved to a new town, and was half-heartedly trying new churches without much feeling of a bond with any of them. My real family still accepted me despite my change of belief. So in reality I lost nothing.

"My real family".... your twenty year relationship with God was fictitious?

By definition, being physically born or spiritually born into a family results in a permanent relationship
which continues even if the child runs away or attempts to deny the birth or rebirth decades later.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (OP)
The Only Issue

Sin will not be and is not the basis of the Last Judgment; sin won't even be mentioned. Each unbeliever's good deeds and works will be the basis for each indictment. Reason: No matter how many good deeds and works unbelievers perform and accumulate, they all add up to human righteousness. Human righteousness cannot have relationship and fellowship with God's perfect divine righteousness. "For all of us have become like one who is unclean, and all of our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment [in the Hebrew: menstrual rags]." (Isaiah 64:6a) "He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy [grace] by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit". (Titus 3:5) The only way to receive God's righteousness is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. (I Corinthians 1:30) The Last Judgment is God's time and place for the final verdict on man's futile struggle to reach heaven on his own merit. Visualize God on His Throne; all unbelievers of the human race will stand before this bench of absolute justice. No believers will be present because "there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." (Romans 8:1)

If you have believed in Christ you are spared the Last Judgment: "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the only begotten [uniquely born] Son of God." (John 3:18) "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not believe in the Son shall not see life but the wrath of God abides on him." (John 3:36) The unbeliever's separation from God for all eternity or second death [separation from God and destruction of the well being of body and soul] is described in Revelation 20:15: "And death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." Since Christ paid the penalty for the sins of the entire world, God the Father's Justice cannot prosecute the human race for personal sin. The only issue is your decision regarding faith alone in Christ alone? Your call.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"My real family".... your twenty year relationship with God was fictitious?

By definition, being physically born or spiritually born into a family results in a permanent relationship
which continues even if the child runs away or attempts to deny the birth or rebirth decades later.

See, you think you are analyzing MY past faith, but all you are really doing is projecting your own inner experience. You, like several others here, are completely unable to imagine a possible world in which your own experiences do not apply to other people.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
See, you think you are analyzing MY past faith, but all you are really doing is projecting your own inner experience. You, like several others here, are completely unable to imagine a possible world in which your own experiences do not apply to other people.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Originally posted by SwissGambit
It's not a decision. Stop and think about it for a bit instead of driving in the usual tire tracks.
________________________________

"PM from KOP 2" Thread 157827 (Page one)

Originally posted by SwissGambit
"The rest of your post is just typical Evangelical Christian cliches. I was a Christian for 20 years. You aren't telling me anything I don't already know with this stuff."

"I was a Christian for 20 years..." and then made a decision not to be a Christian any longer? Someone else decide?

Originally posted by SwissGambit
See, you think you are analyzing MY past faith...

"analyzing" or taking you and your words at face value......

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Originally posted by SwissGambit
[b]It's not a decision. Stop and think about it for a bit instead of driving in the usual tire tracks.
________________________________

"PM from KOP 2" Thread 157827 (Page one)

Originally posted by SwissGambit
"The rest of your post ...[text shortened]... analyzing MY past faith... [/b]

"analyzing" or taking you and your words at face value......[/b]

Actually - neither one, unfortunately.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Actually - neither one, unfortunately.

Thanks for your honesty and candor.

Originally posted by twhitehead
So can we take away from your story that:
1. You behave illogically and know it.
2. You follow a religion for the same illogical reason.

Can you also clarify:
a) which lotteries you participate in and how you decide.
b) which religions you participate in, and how you decided.

You're going to make of it pretty much anything you want, dependent upon your particular bent.
If you like blue, you're totally going to see something blue.

Try this one for size, wise-ass.
What God has done defies logic, defies normative thinking as it relates to self-preservation or general happiness.
I mean, really: who gives to get?
Who puts the seed into the ground, lets it die yet looks for yield of life?
In yearning for a drop of water, who expects a flood?

I think most would disbelieve the story on account of the pay-off.
It doesn't seem too be good to be true, it just seems altogether too good.
But to then consider the exchange: my bloodied tampon for His royal robes?

Yep.
That's even beyond illogical.
It's nearly absurd.
Yet I purchase a ticket.
Why? Because everything else He has said is true, so I must believe this must be true, no matter how beyond good, pure and true it sounds.
I believe it is true because of Him.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
You're going to make of it pretty much anything you want, dependent upon your particular bent.

Well I try to follow your posts and when I am not clear, I ask for clarification, as I did above. For my efforts I get called wise-ass.

I believe it is true because of Him.
I still don't see the connection between your buying lottery tickets that you know is illogical and the reasoning behind your religious beliefs.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Actually - neither one, unfortunately.

Your word has no face value, right?

Originally posted by twhitehead
Well I try to follow your posts and when I am not clear, I ask for clarification, as I did above. For my efforts I get called wise-ass.

[b]I believe it is true because of Him.
I still don't see the connection between your buying lottery tickets that you know is illogical and the reasoning behind your religious beliefs.[/b]

The connection is that buying a ticket sometimes brings a big payoff. Not buying a ticket never brings a big payoff.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Well I try to follow your posts and when I am not clear, I ask for clarification, as I did above. For my efforts I get called wise-ass.

[b]I believe it is true because of Him.
I still don't see the connection between your buying lottery tickets that you know is illogical and the reasoning behind your religious beliefs.[/b]

For my efforts I get called wise-ass.
Oh: you didn't know that "wise-ass" is actually a compliment?
Well, rest assured, because it is a compliment in the same vein as your attempt to characterize your post calling belief illogical as an actual effort to understand.

As I stated, you look for the contradiction and miss the entire concert in the process.

I still don't see the connection between your buying lottery tickets that you know is illogical and the reasoning behind your religious beliefs.
Except for those with inordinate wealth, the cash pay-out ($227.8 million) of yesterday's PowerBall drawing is an obscene amount of money.

For those of us who are currently trading our time for money, this represents--- at the very least--- 4,400 years of median US income earnings. Perhaps some can actually visualize working for that amount of time (I know most can't), but certainly most can get an approximate sense of the impact that type of all-at-once winnings would mean to their lives.

It is not logically impossible for someone to win a lottery.
It is not logically impossible for a lottery to increase in exponential size, relative to tickets sold over time, minus administrative costs.
It is not logically impossible for the money to be transferred to a person(s) with the matching numbers drawn.

The odds of winning a lottery are infinitesimally small, and, coupled with the sometimes overwhelmingly staggering possible prize money, this leads to the sense that gaining the desired pot is highly unlikely... and certainly very few are counting on it becoming a reality for them.

The use of the term "illogical" was brought into the discussion by you, not me.
I said the prospect of winning seemed too good to be true.
I said no one really believes I'm going to win.
You said purchasing one was illogical.

The juxtaposition of winning an obscene amount of money and the prospect of living forever in paradise was the main point.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Your word has no face value, right?

I give you my word that you will be told what you want to hear if you view enough YouTube videos.