The Only Issue

Originally posted by SwissGambit
I give you my word that you will be told what you want to hear if you view enough YouTube videos.

Have you been taking smart pills?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
[b]For my efforts I get called wise-ass.
Oh: you didn't know that "wise-ass" is actually a compliment?
Well, rest assured, because it is a compliment in the same vein as your attempt to characterize your post calling belief illogical as an actual effort to understand.

As I stated, you look for the contradiction and miss the entire concert in the p ...[text shortened]... ng an obscene amount of money and the prospect of living forever in paradise was the main point.[/b]

Such an accurate illustration of the magnitude of God's Mercy and Grace toward mankind: "too good to be true."

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Oh: you didn't know that "wise-ass" is actually a compliment?
Well, rest assured, because it is a compliment in the same vein as your attempt to characterize your post calling belief illogical as an actual effort to understand.

As I stated, you look for the contradiction and miss the entire concert in the process.

Once again, you assume dishonesty where there is none. Stop trying to mind read others all the time, and simply take what they say at face value.
And where did I call belief illogical? It seems I am not the only one missing the point of what others post, but at least I ask for clarification, whereas you apparently assume you know what the other is thinking when you clearly do not.

The use of the term "illogical" was brought into the discussion by you, not me.
You stated that:
1. You did not believe you would win the lottery.
2. You bought lottery tickets every week.
This is clearly illogical behavior.

The juxtaposition of winning an obscene amount of money and the prospect of living forever in paradise was the main point.
I still don't get what insight we are supposed to gain from this juxtaposition. Can you elaborate?

Originally posted by twhitehead
Once again, you assume dishonesty where there is none. Stop trying to mind read others all the time, and simply take what they say at face value.
And where did I call belief illogical? It seems I am not the only one missing the point of what others post, but at least I ask for clarification, whereas you apparently assume you know what the other is thinki ...[text shortened]... still don't get what insight we are supposed to gain from this juxtaposition. Can you elaborate?

And where did I call belief illogical?
When you said I knew my behavior was illogical.

This is clearly illogical behavior.
I don't know that I agree.
I mean, I get your point and agree with certain principles of it, but using strictly a textbook definition of some concepts can lead to missing important nuances required for a more comprehensive understanding.

Technically speaking, you could also say anyone who continues to purchase lottery tickets after x amount of unfruitful results is crazy on account of their repeated behavior in spite of the same disappointing results.

I still don't get what insight we are supposed to gain from this juxtaposition. Can you elaborate?
For man, the most important person of the universe is its Creator.
Even atheists have at least considered the topic, albeit to wrong conclusions.
The prospect offered by Christianity is the opportunity to come face-to-face with a being whose glorious attributes far outpace man's ability to either describe or comprehend.

But even more than that, the offer also includes an overflowing of His presence in one's soul and a ticket into the type of life we all long and strive for: perfect peace, perfect happiness.

Obscene amounts of money also offer a form of coveted life, that of being care-free and lavishly self-indulgent.
Most big winners will testify how transformed their lives became, with troubles magnifying far more than the pleasures, but for those of us on this side of those winnings, those big prizes offers of joy are still thought of as possible.

The longer we live on this planet, the more it becomes evident that there is an awful lot that can go wrong and there seems to be a general suckiness to it overall.
Our kids have it waaaaaay better than any of us, and we all know what's in store for them once they get out on their own, too.

To be transported from a life where pain is part of every good thing, to a life where all good things have had pain removed--- plus being in the presence of God Himself--- seems simply too good to be true... kinda like the lottery does to everyone who hasn't won it.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Maybe this would be easier if I made a list.

*** STUFF I DECIDED RE: NOT BEING A CHRISTIAN ANYMORE ***
I decided to stop going to church.
I decided to quit praying.
I decided to accept sources of morality other than the Bible.

*** STUFF I DID [b]NOT DECIDE ***
I no longer believed there was a heaven and a hell.
I no longer believed there w ...[text shortened]... l.
I no longer believed that everything the Bible claimed was morally wrong was actually wrong.[/b]

Imagine being on defense during an entire game: never on offense with an opportunity to score or chance of winning. Pressing the analogy: team members are aware of this prospect from the outset of their decision to join the team. In contrast, another team within the same global community has already won the game before its over; each player's level of recognition is the only unknown. Members of both teams congregate periodically at a local pub to enjoy relaxed conversation and a few games of darts or billiards. Imagine the difference between the mindsets of the members on the team with no chance of winning and the members of the team that has already won before the game is over. At the pub, which team members engage in defensive conversation; which team members encourage the other team members to switch teams?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
When you said I knew my behavior was illogical.

Well then you are wrong. I did not call belief illogical, I called your behavior illogical.

I don't know that I agree.
Feel free to explain how your behavior is logical.

I mean, I get your point and agree with certain principles of it, but using strictly a textbook definition of some concepts can lead to missing important nuances required for a more comprehensive understanding.
Nope. There are no 'important nuances' involved.

Technically speaking, you could also say anyone who continues to purchase lottery tickets after x amount of unfruitful results is crazy on account of their repeated behavior in spite of the same disappointing results.
No, I wouldn't. I say that technically speaking, anyone who purchases a lottery ticket at all, is being illogical if the costs outweigh the benefits. Your judgement of the costs vs the benefits may be debatable. Certainly anyone who like you, bases their probability calculation on how many unfruitful results they've had is just uneducated, not crazy.


To be transported from a life where pain is part of every good thing, to a life where all good things have had pain removed--- plus being in the presence of God Himself--- seems simply too good to be true... kinda like the lottery does to everyone who hasn't won it.
Well since the connection is so tenuous, it seems to me the story was over elaborate.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (OP)
The Only Issue

Sin will not be and is not the basis of the Last Judgment; sin won't even be mentioned. Each unbeliever's good deeds and works will be the basis for each indictment. Reason: No matter how many good deeds and works unbelievers perform and accumulate, they all add up to human righteousness. Human righteousness cannot have relationship and fellowship with God's perfect divine righteousness. "For all of us have become like one who is unclean, and all of our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment [in the Hebrew: menstrual rags]." (Isaiah 64:6a) "He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy [grace] by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit". (Titus 3:5) The only way to receive God's righteousness is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. (I Corinthians 1:30) The Last Judgment is God's time and place for the final verdict on man's futile struggle to reach heaven on his own merit. Visualize God on His Throne; all unbelievers of the human race will stand before this bench of absolute justice. No believers will be present because "there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." (Romans 8:1)

If you have believed in Christ you are spared the Last Judgment: "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the only begotten [uniquely born] Son of God." (John 3:18) "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not believe in the Son shall not see life but the wrath of God abides on him." (John 3:36) The unbeliever's separation from God for all eternity or second death [separation from God and destruction of the well being of body and soul] is described in Revelation 20:15: "And death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." Since Christ paid the penalty for the sins of the entire world, God the Father's Justice cannot prosecute the human race for personal sin. The only issue is your decision regarding faith alone in Christ alone? Your call.