The Quran of whodey

Originally posted by stocken
Are you kidding me? To get a written text on the level I suggest is much
more influential than to think of it as an absolute truth. If you're
suggesting that bedtime stories are just meaningless nonsense meant
to help a child go to sleep, I'm afraid you're missing one important
aspect of them. To teach things and to encourage independent thought
(h ...[text shortened]... ries has definitely helped shape me to
the person I am today (whether I like that or not).

Ok, Ok you win. Childrens stories have shaped me and made me what I am today

Edit: It just a good thing I never liked the nursery rhyme, "Rubadub dub three men in a tub"..... My friend John was'nt so lucky. Needless to say he now lives in San Fransisco and enjoys listening to Judy Garland albums. 😛

Originally posted by ahosyney
I think this is some sort of a sarcasm here,


[b]Why do you find it so hard to love your enemies?
🙂 I don't know, may be because I'm human, and humans tend not to love their enemies. The word enemy is an opposite to love, and combining two opposite is impossible.

The Quranic verse I gave to whodey say the GOD may make our enimies friends. At t ...[text shortened]... belive only in what GOD told me. The one who said "Love your enimies is not GOD" !!!!![/b]

It's not sarcasm, it's just real feeling. Sad feeling. You really think that God does not love everybody? Only those who love him?

Originally posted by snowinscotland
It's not sarcasm, it's just real feeling. Sad feeling. You really think that God does not love everybody? Only those who love him?

I'm sorry that you had that sad feeling, although I don't see a reason for you to have such a feeling.

Lets see what makes you sad about that;

1- That I can't love my enemy:
The word love can't be combined by enemy. If I love someone he can not be by any mean my enemy. Is it clear. And if I'm not able to love someone that doesn't make him my enemy too.

The enemy is the one that wants something bad for me. I don't think anyone is able to love someone who did kill one of his family members for example. Although if we talk about Islam we are asked to forgive him.
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As we are talking in the religion domain. No one is my enemy unless he attack me, my country (I mean attack my life), or prevent me from telling my message. I don't know if you love some one who tryed to occupie your country and kill your people but I don't.

I don't know why this make you feel sad?
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2) The second point: Does GOD love us all or no?

You said do you know what in GOD mind or not?

My answer is in two parts:
1- As I said I don't say something from my mind. I always talk about something I find in Quran. I can refere you to Quran if you want, and I think I can do the same for the Bible too.

So when I say GOD doesn't love unbelivers, that is mainly because Quran (which I belive is the word of GOD) say so.

But who is the unbeliver, he is someone who heared the Message of GOD, and seen the evidences for his existance, he denyed that all and refused to belive in GOD existance, or refused parts of his message, and at the end he died in this faith.

Those who said not to be loved by GOD.

2- If I belive in GOD and his justice, then I can't belive he love those who deny him.

Now lets assume that A is a beliver , and B is a non beliver. And as you both assume GOD love them both.

If A will be in heaven and B in hell then it means that GOD is punishing someone he love.

Whodey argued before that will I punish my children if they do a mistake, and If I will be loving them at that time?

I say yes I will punish my children but not for ever. But as we all no unbeliver will be in hell for ever. Even if it is a spritual punishment as whodey said before.

And if both A, B will go to heaven because GOD love them both, then it is in Justice.

I don't know if I explained my point of view but I don't see a reason that make you feel sad.
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Edit: When I asked Whodey where in the Bible did GOD say that he love unbelivers, his answer was:

As far as God loving the sinner, there are many verses in the Bible that command us to love those who do not love us

As you can see the answer has nothing to do with my Question.

I didn't ask about the sinner, in Islam also GOD love the sinner, and he is happy when the sinner come back to him and ask forgivness.

And when he say to love who don't love us, is very different from love my enemy. We are asked in Islam to love who don't love us too.

So all the verses he gave me is talking about belivers or human actions. But I was asking about where in the Bible GOD say he love the unbelivers. As far as I know, GOD punishs unbelivers in the Bible.

Edit2: I didn't know you are Christian, I used to know that you are Atheist. May be I'm wrong in both.

Originally posted by whodey
It just a good thing I never liked the nursery rhyme, "Rubadub dub three men in a tub"..... My friend John was'nt so lucky. Needless to say he now lives in San Fransisco and enjoys listening to Judy Garland albums.

😵

Originally posted by whodey
I have recently written the Quran of whodey and I am the sole author of the text. I also have in my possession the original text written in English and therefore has not been corrupted by any man. It should never be translated into another language so as to protect its original meaning. I was given this text from angelic visions and wrote down every word g ...[text shortened]... error and I alone have come to show this revelation from God.

Where am I going wrong here?

Nowhere. Can I read your stuff?

Originally posted by ahosyney
...... lots of stuff....

The Bible says

John 3: 16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son, that whosoever believes on him may not perish, but have life eternal.

This quote is from the Darby Translation (and others) and explains how John was thought to have understood the New Testament.

Originally posted by snowinscotland
The Bible says

John 3: 16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son, that whosoever believes on him may not perish, but have life eternal.

This quote is from the Darby Translation (and others) and explains how John was thought to have understood the New Testament.

John 3: 16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son, that whosoever believes on him may not perish, but have life eternal.


What about the unbelivers. Where they will be....

Originally posted by ahosyney
John 3: 16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son, that whosoever [b]believes on him may not perish, but have life eternal.


What about the unbelivers. Where they will be....[/b]

.... no

For God so loved the world

all.

The point is all. Everyone. Without exception. 'All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.' - we are all in the same position. There are those who think they are better, more 'holy'. That is not the message of the New Testament.

I thought the point was not what happened to those who did not believe, but what happened to those who did. They have life eternal.

Originally posted by snowinscotland
.... no

For God so loved the world

all.

The point is all. Everyone. Without exception. 'All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.' - we are all in the same position. There are those who think they are better, more 'holy'. That is not the message of the New Testament.

I thought the point was not what happened to those who did not believe, but what happened to those who did. They have life eternal.

No , it is the matter of the unbelivers,

if they don't have life eternal, then they are punished.

And that punishment is for ever.

Besides, I'm not talkiing about the sinners, I'm talking about the unbelivers, me and you don't have a problem about the sinners.

Edit:
See this

In Psalms 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man

And this

[i]Deuteronomy 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

10 And repayeth them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him that hateth him, he will repay him to his face.[/i

You may say this is in the OT, but the GOD doesn't change.

Originally posted by ahosyney
No , it is the matter of the unbelivers,

if they don't have life eternal, then they are punished.

And that punishment is for ever.

Besides, I'm not talkiing about the sinners, I'm talking about the unbelivers, me and you don't have a problem about the sinners.

The unbelievers are sinners.

Another verse from Paul for you

1 John 2:
9He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in the darkness until now.

10He that loves his brother abides in light, and there is no occasion of stumbling in him.


Edit: nothing added, nothing taken away.
Edit2: You are going to the Old Testament for this sense of justice and conflict that reigns in the written history - I was trying to stick to the message of the New Testament.

Originally posted by ahosyney
Edit: When I asked Whodey where in the Bible did GOD say that he love unbelivers, his answer was:

As far as God loving the sinner, there are many verses in the Bible that command us to love those who do not love us

Are you not reading my posts or simply ignoring them? I then provided scriptures that back my claim. Where is the rebuttal? I think Matthew 5:43 says it all, however.

"YOU HAVE HEARD IT HAS BEEN SAID, YOU SHOULD LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR, AND HATE YOUR ENEMY. BUT I SAY TO YOU, LOVE YOUR ENEMIES, BLESS THEM THAT CURSE YOU, DO GOOD TO THEM THAT HATE YOU, AND PRAY FOR THEM WHICH DESPITEFULLY USE YOU, AND PERSECUTE YOU."

So how do you like the message of Christ so far? Do you disagree with a prophet of God or are his words of love nothing more than a corrupted message for the gullible and weak minded? Notice that Christ says that in the days of old loving your enemies was unheard of. However, Christ said that he had come to fulfill the law and not to do away with the law. It may sound like he is doing away with the law by saying to love your enemy instead of hating your enemy as in times past but I say he is merely fulfilling the intent of the law which is to love God and your fellow man. Here is the rest of the verse.

"THAT YOU MAY BE THE CHILDREN OF YOUR FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN; FOR HE MAKES HIS SUN TO RISE ON THE EVIL AND THE GOOD, AND SENDS THE RAIN ON THE JUST, AND AS WELL AS THE UNJUST. FOR IF YOU LOVE THEM WHICH LOVE YOU, WHAT REWARD HAVE YOU? DO NOT EVEN SINNERS DO THE SAME? AND IF YOU SALUTE YOUR BRETHREN ONLY, WHAT DO YOU MORE THAN OTHERS? DO NOT SINNERS DO THE SAME? BE YOU THEREFORE PERFECT, EVEN AS YOUR FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN IS PERFECT."

So what Chrsit is really saying is that if you simply love those who love you, you are no better than a sinner or unbeliever because they also have a propensity to love those who love them. What reward is there in that other than personal gratification? Are we to merely do what pleases ourselves?

I think that perhaps you are getting the term "love" confused with liking someone or having a deep emotional attachment to someone. When a man asked Christ what is meant to love your nieghbor, however he gave the message of the Good Samaritan in Luke 10:29-37. Here you have a Jewish man who was attacked and left for dead at the side of the road by theives. Then several men passed by and did not help the man who were both a priest and a Levite. These men should have embraced this Jewish man as one of their own and, in fact, one was supposidly a man of God but apparently he was a man of God in word only. Then, of all people, a Samaritan stops as he passes by to help them man. The Samaritan, however, should have been the one to pass the man by because Jews and Samaritans did not get along during this time and, in fact, should have been his natural enemy. It would be akin to a Palestinian man stopping to help a Jewish man in the Holy Land. However, in the story the Samaritan gathers the man up and takes him to someone to nurse him back to health. He then leaves and pays a man to care for the half dead Jew. Notice that the Samaritan does not so much as say two words to the man. There is no emotional attachment, nor a deep relational attachment, rather, the Samaritan is simply doing the decent thing which is to treat the man as he would like to be treated himself even though he should have full knowledge that the man he is helping is in reality his natural enemy and probably would not do the same for him.

Another teaching of Christ was to turn the other cheek. Do you agree with such a teaching? Should you stike someone back for striking you or should you turn you other cheek for them to strike as they did the other side? Do you see any logic or wisdom to this teaching?

Originally posted by ahosyney
In Psalms 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man

And this

[i]Deuteronomy 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love h ...[text shortened]... e will repay him to his face.[/i

You may say this is in the OT, but the GOD doesn't change.[/b]

Have you ever heard the saying, "We hate the sin but love the sinner"?

If your son or daughter turned against you and tried to destroy you would you stop loving them? I think you see the unbelievers rejection of God as God's punishment towards them. However, another perspective is that love demands a choice and God is simply honering the unbelievers decision not to love him back. They want no part of him so God simply complies with their wishes and distances himself from them as they wish. This is why faith is so important to God. Faith is merely agreeing with the will of the Father on a personal level to effect change in your own personal life. You will God to be in your life and he wills to be in your life. Thus you have a consensual and loving agreement. The unbeleiver, however, is at the other end of the spectrum. Since God is a God of life, when the unbeliever rejects him what are they rejecting? Are they not rejecting their life source? Are they not embracing sin and death?

Originally posted by whodey
Are you not reading my posts or simply ignoring them? I then provided scriptures that back my claim. Where is the rebuttal? I think Matthew 5:43 says it all, however.

"YOU HAVE HEARD IT HAS BEEN SAID, YOU SHOULD LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR, AND HATE YOUR ENEMY. BUT I SAY TO YOU, LOVE YOUR ENEMIES, BLESS THEM THAT CURSE YOU, DO GOOD TO THEM THAT HATE YOU, AND PR ...[text shortened]... em to strike as they did the other side? Do you see any logic or wisdom to this teaching?

Again Whodey I didn't ignore any post , and I have read them all , several times. Did I ignore you before, even if sometimes I don't like your style, but I never ignored your posts.

I read this post and the other post and I didn't find the answer to my Question.

That was my Question?

The other point is, where in the Bible did GOD say that he loves the unbelivers. What I see throughout the Bible that unbelivers are always punished. The punishment included every living even children and animals. How could this be a sign of love?

Do you see you answered it, if yes then it is my English and I'm sorry for that, I will re-read your posts again.

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[i]Originally posted by snowinscotland [i]
The Bible says

John 3: 16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son, that whosoever believes on him may not perish, but have life eternal.

This quote is from the Darby Translation (and others) and explains how John was thought to have understood the New Testament.


What about the unbelivers. Where they will be.????!!!!!

As you can see the only belivers are granted the eternal life.
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So how do you like the message of Christ so far? Do you disagree with a prophet of God or are his words of love nothing more than a corrupted message for the gullible and weak minded?

There are two important points :

1- The NW is a composition by men, each has the name of the auther on it. Non of them is said to be written by Jesus himself. To accept them I should make sure that the authors did really witness the events they document. Something that we will not be able to do now. You can't tell me who is Mathew , and when he did write this Gospel. And so for the other three Gospels and the remaining of the NT. So you can't be 100% sure that Jesus really said such a thing. You may say that the authors written these Gospels as an inspiration from the holy spirit. But as you can see there are major differences between the four Gospel make it hard to belive the source of the four Gospels is one.

2- Even if we assume that Jesus really said that we have a nother problem you refered to by:

Notice that Christ says that in the days of old loving your enemies was unheard of. However, Christ said that he had come to fulfill the law and not to do away with the law. It may sound like he is doing away with the law by saying to love your enemy instead of hating your enemy as in times past but I say he is merely fulfilling the intent of the law which is to love God and your fellow man.

So Jesus came to fulfill the law. But it appears that he is not. So we have two options here:

a- To assume that there is no contradiction here. And we follow the law. But what about what Jesus said? We have to find another meaning to it. I find this meaning simply in Islam as a moderate between Jews who consider every body else as an ememy, and what you understand from it as love your enemies, despite the fact they want to destroy you.

So what I understand is not to take enemies. Love every one untill he shows spite or rancor aganist you. And if you can avoide hate and revenge do it. But if there is now way you have to defend yourself.

b- The second option we have here is to assume that there is a contradiction so I have to reject the NT as the OT is more authintic for me as the NT. Although they both face the same problems.

---------------------------------------------------

Another teaching of Christ was to turn the other cheek. Do you agree with such a teaching? Should you stike someone back for striking you or should you turn you other cheek for them to strike as they did the other side? Do you see any logic or wisdom to this teaching?

Here is what Quran Say:

005.045
YUSUFALI: We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers.

As you can see it is no difference. I have the write to strike back, but if I forgive that will beter for me. And that is what I think Jesus want here. To ask Jews to forgive when they can. But he didn't cancel the law. If you want to follow the law you can, but if you forgive it is better for you.

I think if you agree with me in this meaning, it means that Jesus really came to fullfill.

Does it make sense?

Originally posted by whodey
Have you ever heard the saying, "We hate the sin but love the sinner"?

If your son or daughter turned against you and tried to destroy you would you stop loving them? I think you see the unbelievers rejection of God as God's punishment towards them. However, another perspective is that love demands a choice and God is simply honering the unbelievers de ...[text shortened]... rejecting? Are they not rejecting their life source? Are they not embracing sin and death?

The two verses I gave you imply that GOD don't love the unbelivers. Not their actions.

What you say is a very emotional picture of GOD. The langauge is not helping me to descripe what I feel when I read what you think about your relation to GOD. I will try to write to you when I find the suitable words.
-----------------------------------------

Read my previous post!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by ahosyney
..........
Here is what Quran Say:

[b]005.045
YUSUFALI: We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers.
....etc [/b]

From what you are saying, you think the New Testament is pretty much fatally flawed as you see it, the Old Testament you think is better, but suffers from the same flaws.

The verse you quoted above, what has Allah revealed that would allow revenge? (ie not make the injured any better that the wrong doer)?