Originally posted by RJHindsWhat if there is no GOD?
Some of us use the Holy Bible to inform us and the Holy Spirit to guide us to the truth. 😏
HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Glory be to God! Holy! Holy! Holy!
What then? Supposing that all that was written was rubbish from start to finish?
What then? No matter what religion you decided to embrace suppose you
are all wrong? What then? Won't you all look foolish?
There is no one who can prove that they are right.
Not even me, and to be honest I don't know what the eternal plan is for
when it does all finally come to an end.
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Originally posted by SuzianneFirst, “Jews” often referred to (and that would seem clear in John’s gospel, e.g. with reference to “the Jews” in the temple) the residents of Judea (the old Southern Kingdom) as opposed to Galilee or Samaria, for instance (the old Northern Kingdom of Israel). The religious expression of Judaism in Galilee seems to have been less text-oriented and more proto-Hasidic, in rabbis such as Hanina ben Dosa, Honi the Circle-Drawer—and perhaps Yeshu ben Yosef (setting aside our differences as to what “messiah” means, and such: I recognize the Christic views, and am not trying to set up a debate here). In any event, Jewish history records several philosophical clashes (in terms Jewish religious philosophy) between Galilean and Judean rabbis.
See John 10:33, my friend.
The Jews are the ones who accused Him of blasphemy. Ask them.
Second, It seems clear (here and elsewhere) that Yeshu/Jesus was quite familiar with, and able to hold his own in, the kind of talmudic argument that characterized rabbinical debate at the time (as it does today).*
Third, from a totally Jewish (talmud/torah) perspective, Jesus wins this one. Claiming to be a son of God was not/is not blasphemy in Judaism. In fact, it seems to have been a fairly common (if somewhat formal) self-reference (see: Jesus the Jew by Geza Vermez). The interesting thing is how the bold assertion of the Psalmic text that Jesus quotes ends up being fairly well ignored by most Christians, as well as, perhaps, most Jews.
In any event, in the context of that kind of talmud/torah argument (especially a heated one—one might think, even today, of some Protestant-versus-Catholic polemics), it does not seem strange to me that the one side should raise the blasphemy challenge—even if they knew it would be shot down, and might (at least in a less polemical torah debate) criticize their opponent if he did not shoot it down properly.
Anyway, that is one way that I would explicate it. I realize that there are arguments than can be raised, from either the Jewish or the Christian side. Although once, and for most of my life, a Christian, I don’t go into the New Testament much these days—and I’m not trying to do any real exegesis here: just suggesting the bare bones of one view, based on my own studies, past and present.
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* Traditional Torah study requires at least two people who engage in dialectical argument. Note: I have put references to "talmud/talmudic" in lower case, because I intend the method, not the particular written records of that method up to a particular time, which records set up a template for ongoing "oral torah" argument/dialectics.
Originally posted by johnnylongwoodyThat is the kind of supposing that has caused us to have all the problems we have today. Those that suppose the Holy Bible is wrong and that there is no Creator have had to come up with an alternate idea. That idea led to the Big Bang Theory in astronomy and the Evolution Theory in Biology. Those ideas led to Marxism and Communism and the holocaust because the Jews were identified by some as an inferior race in the evolution process.
What if there is no GOD?
What then? Supposing that all that was written was rubbish from start to finish?
What then? No matter what religion you decided to embrace suppose you
are all wrong? What then? Won't you all look foolish?
There is no one who can prove that they are right.
Not even me, and to be honest I don't know what the eternal plan is for
when it does all finally come to an end.
On the other hand, supposing that the God of the Holy Bible exists has led to the Christian religion, which eventually led to the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States of America and the dedication of those Americans to be willing to fight for the freedom of all to the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Originally posted by RJHindsThere is an oxymoron if I ever heard one.
That is the kind of supposing that has caused us to have all the problems we have today. Those that suppose the Holy Bible is wrong and that there is no Creator have had to come up with an alternate idea. That idea led to the Big Bang Theory in astronomy and the Evolution Theory in Biology. Those ideas led to Marxism and Communism and the holocaust becaus ...[text shortened]... ing to fight for the freedom of all to the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Would you listen to yourself? Christianity led to the declaration of independence?
If you followed to the letter the words of your Jesus he said
and I paraphrase,
Be separate from the world.
What he meant by that was worship God and keep the commandments.
He didn't say anything about being part of any political movement.
According to Jesus Satan is the ruler of this world and everything in it
that includes political organizations.
That's a preposterous leap saying that the new testament eventually led to the
declaration of independence and the formation of the USA.
You ought to be put in a room with very soft wallpaper.
Is it any wonder that some people think that the USA is full of whackos.
I am not one of them thank God because I know there are Americans who are
much more sophisticated than you.
Originally posted by johnnylongwoodyIt is true that I am a redneck and not very sophisticated by British standards, but that does not mean I can not be intelligent enough to understand what is true and what is false.
There is an oxymoron if I ever heard one.
Would you listen to yourself? Christianity led to the declaration of independence?
If you followed to the letter the words of your Jesus he said
and I paraphrase,
Be separate from the world.
What he meant by that was worship God and keep the commandments.
He didn't say anything about bein ...[text shortened]... them thank God because I know there are Americans who are
much more sophisticated than you.
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Originally posted by RJHindsFirst of all I am Irish. I am not and never have been British.
It is true that I am a redneck and not very sophisticated by British standards, but that does not mean I can not be intelligent enough to understand what is true and what is false.
Secondly, I never claimed to be superior to you. I am an ordinary person
and probably just as much of a redneck as you are.
Thirdly, the bible is a collection of 66 books written by different people
over a period of 1600 years. Many times the writings have been challenged.
Numerous translations and interpretations.
All I am saying is no one really knows for sure 100%
if they are correct or just the ramblings of some nuts
who existed around that time. The meanings of the passages are vague.
Some say they should be taken literally and others say they should be taken
figuratively. But no one, I repeat, no one can say for sure if they are correct.
Not you, not me, not anyone.
You only believe them because all your life you were told
this is the way, there is no other way in your view and you will not
challenge what you have been told all your life.
You don't know anything else only what you have been told and you accept it
without question because you think it is true and you are not prepared in any way
to accept any other alternative isn't that right RJ?
By the way, you are a self proclaimed right wing gun nut.
How does that fit in with Christ's laws of love one another?
His name was Jesus not Dirty Harry.
If there is a heaven up there with Golden Gates,
Is Jesus going to point his .44 at you as you try to enter and he'll ask you,
Do you feel lucky? Punk?
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Originally posted by johnnylongwoodyIt appeared to me that you were looking down on me for being an unsophisticated redneck. But I never accused you of being British, but only using the sophisticated standards of the British as a comparision. I thought you would be able to relate to that, considering the lack of sophistication that you wished I had. I hope that is clear now.
First of all I am Irish. I am not and never have been British.
Secondly, I never claimed to be superior to you. I am an ordinary person
and probably just as much of a redneck as you are.
Thirdly, the bible is a collection of 66 books written by different people
over a period of 1600 years. Many times the writings have been challenged.
Numer to point his .44 at you as you try to enter and he'll ask you,
Do you feel lucky? Punk?
It is true that I was taught the Christian way, however, it is not true that I have never challenged the things I have been told all my life. As a child, I did accept what I was told and was baptized into membership into a local Baptist Church at the age of 12. But later, as I reached those rebellious teenage years that young people go through, doubts had developed and I did challenge the truth of some things I had been taught.
It was not until after I had completed 20 years of military service that I began a quest to answer my doubts as to what was true and false in religion. Certainly, I still do not know all the answers and my opinion of how Heaven and Hell might be is only speculation, but I have gained enough knowledge to satisfy me that the Holy Bible is true and not just a collection of writings by nutjobs.
I also had to investigate the atheistic view of the world in comparison and came to the conclusion that there was no "Big Bang" and that the "Evolution Theory" was stupid and without merit. It is true that I can not tell you that all that I believe is a fact, but I believe that all the things I believe to be facts, fit together better logically in my worldview than in the atheists worldview.
http://pleaseconvinceme.com/2012/there-is-a-single-theme-in-all-of-the-bible/
I enjoyed your bit of humor, but perhaps you will be the one that hears,
Do you feel lucky? Punk?
Originally posted by johnnylongwoodyYou might be a redneck if a state trooper pulls you over and asks you if you have an I.D. and you reply, "About what?"
First of all I am Irish. I am not and never have been British.
Secondly, I never claimed to be superior to you. I am an ordinary person
and probably just as much of a redneck as you are.
Thirdly, the bible is a collection of 66 books written by different people
over a period of 1600 years. Many times the writings have been challenged.
Numer ...[text shortened]... to point his .44 at you as you try to enter and he'll ask you,
Do you feel lucky? Punk?
