The Second Law of Thermodynamics

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Well, first you can look down the strata, deeper generally means older (although you can get invertion) - slices vary in duration, but around 10,000 per slice is a good estimate. Likeiwse, the strata can be radiodated.

Species are not permanent things, one species changes to another. The lines are blurry, but based upon physiological differences, w ...[text shortened]... , we have lots. I'll look up some better pages, and original journal articles, if you'd like.

Just out of interest, has anyone ever observed fossilization taking place?

How do you know for sure how fossils form?

What do you say about many cases of fossilized tree trunks standing vertically in horizontally bedded sediments which have apparently been laid down on top of each other in water. It is not uncommon to find tree trunks ten meters long preserved in this way. Historical geology requires many thousands of years for ten meters of sediment to be deposited.

There are good reasons to believe that the interpretation of the geological record in terms of the uniformity principle has major flaws.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Just out of interest, has anyone ever observed fossilization taking place?

How do you know for sure how fossils form?

What do you say about many cases of fossilized tree trunks standing vertically in horizontally bedded sediments which have apparently been laid down on top of each other in water. It is not uncommon to find tree trunks ten meters lon ...[text shortened]... he interpretation of the geological record in terms of the uniformity principle has major flaws.

You are nuts.

Fossilisation requires quick burial. Landslides are good, as is falling in suphurous pools.

It's well understood by almost everyone except apparently you.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
You are nuts.

Fossilisation requires quick burial. Landslides are good, as is falling in suphurous pools.

It's well understood by almost everyone except apparently you.

Dude you are the one who apparently does not understand fossilization...

You just said in one of your previous posts that the deeper the fossil in the sediments the older it is, according to the uniformity principle.

Now you are saying that fossils require rapid burial. So if fossils are rapidly buried under multiple layers of sediments, you cannot use the sediment layers to date the fossils accurately.

No one has been able to observe fossilization happening anywhere in the world. Scientists have examined sites where they think fossils ought to be forming, and they have tried to produce fossils in the laboratory, but have never succeeded.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Cellphones were designed to be portable telephones. Has their increased complexity, with cameras, Blue Tooth, Internet, etc, made them more efficient at performing their original function?

Well yeah! I can now have my blue tooth stereo headset on listening to my mp3 player and if someone wants to call me the phone interrupts my playlist and I can take the call. When its over my play list resumes.

How much more superior is the mobile phone now! I have paid large sums of money for a device that puts me on a permanent hold while I wait for the next random caller to engage me with conversation while listening to a playlist of my own choosing.

And you can seriously doubt the increase in complexity that has led to such a vast improvement in the breed? Man this is progress.

I'm waiting for the next gen of mobiles that will allow you to listen to your callers playlist when the call starts getting a bit predictable.

Originally posted by dj2becker
What makes you think that life came from a puddle of chemicals in the first place?

I don't. God created life but with entropy and the 2nd law in mind, all life will in time revert to its constituent parts. How long does this take? In other words, what is the half-life of life? This is a serious question.

Originally posted by buffalobill
I don't. God created life but with entropy and the 2nd law in mind, all life will in time revert to its constituent parts. How long does this take? In other words, what is the half-life of life? This is a serious question.

What makes you think that anyone knows what the half-life of life is?

This is a serious question.

Originally posted by dj2becker
What makes you think that anyone knows what the half-life of life is?

If entropy applies to living organissms then surely it must be measurable? C'mon, help me out here, Captain.

Originally posted by buffalobill
If entropy applies to living organissms then surely it must be measurable? C'mon, help me out here, Captain.

Entropy applies to living organisms. Just not the second law of thermodynamics!

Originally posted by adam warlock
Entropy applies to living organisms. Just not the second law of thermodynamics!

If entropy applies to living organisms, and the 2nd law is all about entropy, maybe you would care to explain how suddenly the 2nd law excludes living organisms.

Originally posted by buffalobill
If entropy applies to living organissms then surely it must be measurable? C'mon, help me out here, Captain.

What are organissms?

Or do you mean organisms?

You see Science does not always have all the answers. There are a lot of assumptions that have to be made. One assumption is whether or not the rate of increase in entropy has always been constant. When we extrapolate back into the past, there are just many things we do not know. Another thing is the initial amount of entropy in the universe. Unfortunately you cannot supply me with that information, or can you?

Originally posted by dj2becker
Dude you are the one who apparently does not understand fossilization...

You just said in one of your previous posts that the deeper the fossil in the sediments the older it is, according to the uniformity principle.

Now you are saying that fossils require rapid burial. So if fossils are rapidly buried under multiple layers of sediments, you cannot u ...[text shortened]... be forming, and they have tried to produce fossils in the laboratory, but have never succeeded.

Here is a wiki article on the petrification of wood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrified_wood

Just because some fossil trees are petrified this way, it hardly debases the entire body of evidence of the fossil record! If it were all we had, then sure, but the fossil record is huge, and very well documented (and dated using a variety of techniques)!

The uniformity principle is fine most of the time, but it's not an exclusive tool! Many different ways of looking at the chronology are used, and strata is only applicable in some cases.

You may not trust professional palaeontologists, but I do.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Here is a wiki article on the petrification of wood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrified_wood

Just because some fossil trees are petrified this way, it hardly debases the entire body of evidence of the fossil record! If it were all we had, then sure, but the fossil record is huge, and very well documented (and dated using a variety of t ...[text shortened]... is only applicable in some cases.

You may not trust professional palaeontologists, but I do.

Do tell how the uniformity principle can be fine most of the time if rapid burial of fossils take place?

You for one should know that not all fossils can be dated, and that the faulty geologic column is then used on them. And you should also know that radiometric dating is far from infallible.

Do you really trust them? How about this guy?

"In any case, no real evolutionist, whether gradualist or punctuationalist, uses the fossil record as evidence in favor of the theory of evolution" Mark Ridley, "Who Doubts Evolution",

New Scientist, Vol. 90, No: 1259, June 25, - 1981.

Originally posted by dj2becker
What are organissms?

Or do you mean organisms?

You see Science does not always have all the answers. There are a lot of assumptions that have to be made. One assumption is whether or not the rate of increase in entropy has always been constant. When we extrapolate back into the past, there are just many things we do not know. Another thing is the ...[text shortened]... f entropy in the universe. Unfortunately you cannot supply me with that information, or can you?

What else could he possibly have meant? I know, perhaps he meant 'dj2becker is a smug, patronising imbecile', but his spelling is bad...

Originally posted by dj2becker
Do tell how the uniformity principle can be fine most of the time if rapid burial of fossils take place?

You for one should know that not all fossils can be dated, and that the faulty geologic column is then used on them. And you should also know that radiometric dating is far from infallible.

Do you really trust them? How about this guy?

"In an ...[text shortened]... Mark Ridley, "Who Doubts Evolution",

New Scientist, Vol. 90, No: 1259, June 25, - 1981.

Probably, there is meant to be a question mark at the end of "Who Doubts Evolution". Mark (as well as Matt, no relation) Ridley has written several books on evolution.

Tell me, deej, why do the overwhelming majority of people who are actually trained in biology accept evolution, and it takes a guy who, let's face it, doesn't fully understand the 2nd law of thermodynamics to tell them they are wrong? DO you think you have better insight than the THOUSANDS of career scientists specialising in evolution?

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Here is a wiki article on the petrification of wood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrified_wood

Just because some fossil trees are petrified this way, it hardly debases the entire body of evidence of the fossil record! If it were all we had, then sure, but the fossil record is huge, and very well documented (and dated using a variety of t ...[text shortened]... is only applicable in some cases.

You may not trust professional palaeontologists, but I do.

You fool! You sinner! God created Man, the earth, the heavens and all under it. This includes fossils and ancient rocks which are merely there to test us. Vertically placed tree fossils are secret messages placed by God - you've just got to learn to read the writing.

As for the fact that fossilised trees have been created in the laboratory is nothing but a cheap parlour trick. It has nothing to do with real life conditions.