The Second Law of Thermodynamics

Originally posted by dj2becker
Another thing is the initial amount of entropy in the universe. Unfortunately you cannot supply me with that information, or can you?

Of course not, silly. You and I know that when the hand of God created it, the unknown is unknowable. You're trying to test my faith, aren't you?

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Probably, there is meant to be a question mark at the end of "Who Doubts Evolution". Mark (as well as Matt, no relation) Ridley has written several books on evolution.

Tell me, deej, why do the overwhelming majority of people who are actually trained in biology accept evolution, and it takes a guy who, let's face it, doesn't fully understand the 2 ...[text shortened]... k you have better insight than the THOUSANDS of career scientists specialising in evolution?

I take it you cannot tell me why the uniformity principle is fine most of the time when fossil formation requires rapid burial?

Your argument doesn't hold any water. There are plenty of biologists that are honest enough to admit that evolution is a fairy tale.

There are also plenty of respectable scientists that say that evolution defies the 2nd law. And you know that.

The fact that the majority will cling to evolution because of it's moral implications is not surprising at all.

Originally posted by dj2becker
There are also plenty of respectable scientists that say that evolution defies the 2nd law. And you know that.

Please name one.

And I will promptly loose all respect for him.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Please name one.

And I will promptly loose all respect for him.

I don't even need to bother, because you have just proven yourself to be yet another narrow-minded bigot.

Originally posted by dj2becker
There are plenty of biologists that are honest enough to admit that evolution is a fairy tale.

There are also plenty of respectable scientists that say that evolution defies the 2nd law. And you know that.

The fact that the majority will cling to evolution because of it's moral implications is not surprising at all.

There are plenty of biologists that are honest enough to admit that evolution is a fairy tale.

Probably about 0.000000001% of all biologists.


There are also plenty of respectable scientists that say that evolution defies the 2nd law. And you know that.

Name one.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
[b]There are plenty of biologists that are honest enough to admit that evolution is a fairy tale.

Probably about 0.000000001% of all biologists.


There are also plenty of respectable scientists that say that evolution defies the 2nd law. And you know that.

Name one.[/b]

Most biologists accept minor 'evolutionary changes'. But many of those don't believe the chemical soup to man fairy tale.

Here are only a few who have a PhD in Science:

1. Agard, E. Theo
2. Allan, James
3. Anderson, Kevin
4. Armstrong, Harold
5. Arndt, Alexander
6. Austin, Steven
7. Barnes, Thomas
8. Batten, Don
9. Baumgardner, John
10. Bergman, Jerry
11. Boudreaux, Edward
12. Byl, John
13. Catchpoole, David
14. Chadwick, Arthur
15. Chaffin, Eugene
16. Chittick, Donald
17. Cimbala, John
18. Clausen, Ben
19. Cole, Sid
20. Cook, Melvin
21. Cumming, Ken
22. Cuozzo, Jack
23. Darrall, Nancy
24. Dewitt, David
25. DeYoung, Donald
26. Downes, Geoff
27. Eckel, Robert
28. Faulkner, Danny
29. Ford, Dwain
30. Frair, Wayne
31. Gentry, Robert
32. Giem, Paul
33. Gillen, Alan
34. Gish, Duane
35. Gitt, Werner
36. Gower, D.B.
37. Grebe, John
38. Grocott, Stephen
39. Harrub, Brad
40. Hawke, George
41. Hollowell, Kelly
42. Holroyd, Edmond
43. Hosken, Bob
44. Howe, George
45. Humphreys, D. Russell
46. Javor, George
47. Jones, Arthur
48. Kaufmann, David
49. Kennedy, Elaine
50. Klotz, John
51. Koop, C. Everett
52. Korochkin, Leonid
53. Kramer, John
54. Lammerts, Walter
55. Lester, Lane
56. Livingston, David
57. Lopez, Raul
58. Marcus, John
59. Marsh, Frank
60. Mastropaolo, Joseph
61. McCombs, Charles
62. McIntosh, Andrew
63. McMullen, Tom
64. Meyer, Angela
65. Meyer, John
66. Mitchell, Colin
67. Morris, Henry
68. Morris, John
69. Mumma, Stanley
70. Parker, Gary
71. Peet, J. H. John
72. Rankin, John
73. Rosevear, David
74. Roth, Ariel
75. Rusch, Wilbert
76. Sarfati, Jonathan
77. Snelling, Andrew
78. Standish, Timothy
79. Taylor, Stephen
80. Thaxton, Charles
81. Thompson, Bert
82. Thomson, Ker
83. Vardiman, Larry
84. Veith, Walter
85. Walter, Jeremy
86. Wanser, Keith
87. Whitcomb, John
88. White, A.J.(Monty)
89. Wilder-Smith, Arthur Ernest
90. Wile, Jay
91. Williams, Emmett
92. Wise, Kurt
93. Wolfrom, Glen
94. Zuill, Henry

Originally posted by dj2becker
Most biologists accept minor 'evolutionary changes'. But many of those don't believe the chemical soup to man fairy tale.

Here are only a few who have a PhD in Science:

1. Agard, E. Theo
2. Allan, James
3. Anderson, Kevin
4. Armstrong, Harold
5. Arndt, Alexander
6. Austin, Steven
7. Barnes, Thomas
8. Batten, Don
9. ...[text shortened]... Wile, Jay
91. Williams, Emmett
92. Wise, Kurt
93. Wolfrom, Glen
94. Zuill, Henry

Firstly, attribute the people on this list to institutions and give them their relevant qualification, lest we think you made it up.

Secondly, and for the umpteenth time, don't include the process of abiogenesis in the Theory of Evolution.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Most biologists accept minor 'evolutionary changes'. But many of those don't believe the chemical soup to man fairy tale.

Here are only a few who have a PhD in Science:

1. Agard, E. Theo
2. Allan, James
3. Anderson, Kevin
4. Armstrong, Harold
5. Arndt, Alexander
6. Austin, Steven
7. Barnes, Thomas
8. Batten, Don
9. ...[text shortened]... Wile, Jay
91. Williams, Emmett
92. Wise, Kurt
93. Wolfrom, Glen
94. Zuill, Henry

And how many of them are biologists?

And how many biologists do you think there are on the planet?

Originally posted by dj2becker
Most biologists accept minor 'evolutionary changes'. But many of those don't believe the chemical soup to man fairy tale.

Here are only a few who have a PhD in Science:

1. Agard, E. Theo
2. Allan, James
3. Anderson, Kevin
4. Armstrong, Harold
5. Arndt, Alexander
6. Austin, Steven
7. Barnes, Thomas
8. Batten, Don
9. ...[text shortened]... Wile, Jay
91. Williams, Emmett
92. Wise, Kurt
93. Wolfrom, Glen
94. Zuill, Henry

As a professional biologist, I only know one name on that list - Duane Gish - and he's a mathematician.

Originally posted by Starrman
Firstly, attribute the people on this list to institutions and give them their relevant qualification, lest we think you made it up.

Secondly, and for the umpteenth time, don't include the process of abiogenesis in the Theory of Evolution.

I'll give you the first ten, you can look the rest up yourself:

And if Evolution has never been used to try and explain origins, we wouldn't be here debating it.

E. Theo Agard:

* Ph.D. in physics from the University of Toronto, Canada

* M.S. in physics from the Middlesex Hospital Medical School at the
University of London

* B.S. (hons) first class in physics from the University of London

* Health Physics Society national board of directors since 1993

* Former director of medical physics at Flower Hospital Oncology Center, Ohio, U.S.A.


James S. Allan:



* Ph.D. in genetics from the University of Edinburgh, Scotland

* M.S. in agriculture from the University of Stellenbosch, South Africa

* B.S. in agriculture from the University of Natal

* Former senior lecturer in genetics at the University of Stellenbosch

* International consultant in dairy cattle breeding


Kevin Anderson



*Ph.D. in Microbiology from Kansas State University


*NIH Postdoctoral Fellow, Dept Microbiology, University of Illinois


* Former assistant Professor of Microbiology, Mississippi State University

*Research Microbiologist, USDA, Ames, Iowa


* Published over 20 technical papers on genetics and molecular biology of bacteria


He has given numerous presentations at scientific meetings around the world and is currently the editor-in-chief of the Creation Research Society Quarterly.


Harold L. Armstrong


* Research in electronics, semiconductor devices and related matters

* Professor of Physics, Queen's University, Kingston, Ontario, Canada

* Editor of the Creation Research Society Quarterly (1974-84)


Alexander Arndt


* Professor of Analytical Chemistry of Heidelberg University, Germany

* Former vice-president of the USSR Academy of Medical Sciences Institute for Ecology Research.


Steven A. Austin

* Ph.D. from Pennsylvania State University, doctoral dissertation on coal formation

* M.S. in geology from San Jose State University

* B.S. in geology from the University of Washington

* Consulting geologist for government and industry

* Member: Geological Society of America

* Member: American Association of Petroleum Geologists

* Member: the Society for Sedimentary Geology

* Member: the International Association of Sedimentologists

* Author of numerous papers including publication in the peer-reviewed journal International Geology Review (1999)

* Chairman of the Geology Department, Institute for Creation Research Graduate School

Thomas G. Barnes


* D.Sc. from Hardin-Simmons University (1950)

* Professor emeritus of Physics and Director Schellenger Research Laboratories of Texas Western College of the University of Texas at El Paso

* Former consultant to Globe Universal Sciences, Inc. in El Paso

* Former research physicist at Duke University (1942-45)

* M.S. degree from Brown University (1936) while studying under the famous physicist R.B. Lindsay

* Director of many important research projects on terrestrial magnetism and atmospheric physics

* Published various scientific papers and textbooks

* Member of the Editorial Board of the Creation Research Society Quarterly


Don Batten


* Plant physiologist

* Ph.D. in plant physiology from the University of Sydney

* B.Sc.Agr. with first-class honors from the University of Sydney

* Consultant plant physiologist and research scientist

* New South Wales Department of Agriculture (Australia) research scientist for 18 years

* Published various scientific papers

* Staff member of Answers in Genesis

John R. Baumgardner

* Creationist

* Geophysics

* Ph.D. and M.S. in geophysics and space physics from UCLA (1983, 1981)

* M.S. in electrical engineering from Princeton University (1970)

* B.S. in electrical engineering from Texas Tech University (1968)

* TERRA code chief developer

* Technical staff member in the theoretical division of Los Alamos National Laboratory

* Adjunct faculty for Institute for Creation Research, Santee, California

Jerry R. Bergman

- Biology, psychology, biomedical science, chemistry

- Ph.D. student, department of chemistry Miami University, Oxford, Ohio


Masters of Public Health (2001) from Northwest Ohio Consortium for Public Health (Medical College of Ohio, Toledo, Ohio; University of Toledo, Toledo, Ohio; Bowling Green State University, Bowling Green, Ohio)
*

M.S. (1999) in Biomedical Science, Medical College of Ohio, Toledo, Ohio
*

Post graduate study (1992-1996) in geology, philosophy, nutrition, chemistry, and meteorology at University of Wisconsin, Madison, Wisconsin
*

Ph.D. (1992) in human biology from Columbia Pacific University, San Rafael, California
*

M.A. (1986) in Sociology with a major in social psychology from Bowling Green State University, Bowling Green, Ohio
* Ph.D. (1976) in measurement and evaluation, minor in psychology, from Wayne State University, Detroit, Michigan

*

M.Ed. (1971) in counseling and psychology, from Wayne State University, Detroit, Michigan
*

B.S. (1970) with major area of study in sociology, biology, and psychology from Wayne State University, Detroit, Michigan
*

A.A. (1967) in Biology and Behavioral Science, from Oakland Community College, Bloomfield Hills, Michigan
*

Taught biology, genetics, biochemistry, anthropology, geology, and microbiology at Northwest State College in Archbold OH for over 17 years
*

Taught at the Medical College of Ohio where was a research associate in the Department of Experimental Pathology
*

Taught 6 years at the University of Toledo
*

Taught 7 years at Bowing Green State University
*

Author of over 600 publications in 12 languages and 20 books and monographs / Contributor to dozens of textbooks / Consultant for over 20 science text books, mostly biology and biochemistry
*

Presented over 100 scientific papers at professional and community meetings in the United States, Canada, and Europe / Featured speaker on many college campuses throughout the United States and Europe, and is a frequent guest on radio and television programs.
*

Licensed professional clinical counselor at various Mental Health/Psychology clinics (10 years experience)
*

Corrections research for a large county circuit court in Michigan and inside the walls of Jackson Prison (SPSM) ( 3 years)
*

Served as a consultant for CBS News, ABC News, Reader’s Digest, Amnesty International, several government agencies and for two Nobel Prize winners, including the inventor of the transistor.
*

Fellow (1983) of the American Scientific Association
*

Originally posted by scottishinnz
As a professional biologist, I only know one name on that list - Duane Gish - and he's a mathematician.

Duane T. Gish:

* Creationist

* Biochemist

* Ph.D. in Biochemistry from University of California at Berkeley (1953)

* B.S. in chemistry from U.C.L.A. (1949)

* Research Associate, Research Division, The Upjohn Company, Kalamazoo, Michigan (1960-1971)

* Assistant Research Associate in Biochemistry, University of California (Berkeley), Virus Laboratory (1956-1960)

* Assistant Professor of Biochemistry, Cornell University Medical College (NYC) (1955-1956)

* Lilly Postdoctoral Fellow, Cornell University Medical College (1953-1955)

* Phi Beta Kappa, University of California, Los Angeles

* Vice President of the Institute for Creation Research

* Lecturer and most well-known debater on Creation-Evolution

Originally posted by dj2becker
Most biologists accept minor 'evolutionary changes'. But many of those don't believe the chemical soup to man fairy tale.

Do any of them claim that evolution defies the second law of thermodynamics?
Why haven't they done any scientific research along those lines? Or is there a world wide conspiracy to keep them quiet?

Originally posted by twhitehead
Do any of them claim that evolution defies the second law of thermodynamics?
Why haven't they done any scientific research along those lines? Or is there a world wide conspiracy to keep them quiet?

They are all creationists.

Could you name one creationist who does NOT believe that abiogenesis theory defies the 2nd law?

A lot of research has been done and published on the topic.

Originally posted by dj2becker
They are all creationists.

Could you name one creationist who does NOT believe that abiogenesis theory defies the 2nd law?

A lot of research has been done and published on the topic.

If you're a creationist you cannot be a proper scientist, since all your research is precluded by a belief in creation and a denial of evolution and abiogenesis. Can anyone spell 'bias'?

Show me a list of 100 non-creationist scientists that believe abiogenesis and the theory of evolution are false.

It is my sincere belief that creationists are brainwashed idiots and any scientific 'reasearch' done by such people is inherrently flawed.

Originally posted by dj2becker
They are all creationists.

Could you name one creationist who does NOT believe that abiogenesis theory defies the 2nd law?

I know plenty of creationists who don't even know what the second law of thermodynamics is, so how could they possibly have beliefs on the matter?
However you didn't answer the question. The question was about the Theory of Evolution and not about abiogenesis.

A lot of research has been done and published on the topic.
But somehow it never gets into the scientific magazines/books etc that I read. So am I right about a global conspiracy against them?