1. Cape Town
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    29 Mar '07 11:46
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    Exactly, so non-life if left to it's own devices tends to move towards disorder.

    Has it been demonstrated that non-life can manipulate energy to form life?
    Yes, its called abiogenesis. Or did you not know what that word meant?
  2. Joined
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    30 Mar '07 14:32
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    No.

    Look up "photochemistry".
    I said enough energy to form life from non-life.
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    30 Mar '07 14:34
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Yes, its called abiogenesis. Or did you not know what that word meant?
    Life has never been demonstrated to form from non-life, has it?
  4. Standard memberNemesio
    Ursulakantor
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    30 Mar '07 15:17
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    I said enough energy to form life from non-life.
    Are you telling me that, if a scientist was able to make an experiment
    in which s/he could form life from energy and non-living proteins and
    so forth (as abiogensis maintains), you would admit that evolution was
    a viable and probable theory?

    Nemesio
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    30 Mar '07 16:38
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    Are you telling me that, if a scientist was able to make an experiment
    in which s/he could form life from energy and non-living proteins and
    so forth (as abiogensis maintains), you would admit that evolution was
    a viable and probable theory?

    Nemesio
    When did I say that?
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    30 Mar '07 18:201 edit
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    Are you telling me that, if a scientist was able to make an experiment
    in which s/he could form life from energy and non-living proteins and
    so forth (as abiogensis maintains), you would admit that evolution was
    a viable and probable theory?

    Nemesio
    Well, come to think of it, if you can prove to me that the scientist had no intelligence, then possibly it could provide some form of credibility to an unintelligent process such as evolution.
  7. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    slatington, pa, usa
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    30 Mar '07 18:24
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    Well, if you can prove to me that the scientist had no intelligence, then possibly it could provide some form of credibility to an unintelligent process such as evolution.
    What leads you to think evolution is un-intelligent? There is intelligence, not from outside like you wish to pre-suppose, but from internal intelligence, one thing being DNA itself as a form of computer. Life has the ability to internalize changes in environmental stress, thats what give rise to the next incremental change. DNA is a form of intelligence all on its own.
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    30 Mar '07 19:03
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    What leads you to think evolution is un-intelligent? There is intelligence, not from outside like you wish to pre-suppose, but from internal intelligence, one thing being DNA itself as a form of computer. Life has the ability to internalize changes in environmental stress, thats what give rise to the next incremental change. DNA is a form of intelligence all on its own.
    No one will dispute with you that life is intelligent, DNA is found in living organisms.

    The point is that it doesn't follow logically that intelligent life is derived from unintelligent non-life.

    But it makes perfect sense that life flows from an unlimited source of intelligence.
  9. Standard memberscottishinnz
    Kichigai!
    Osaka
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    30 Mar '07 20:49
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    I said enough energy to form life from non-life.
    What's the big difference between life and non-life?
  10. Joined
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    30 Mar '07 21:00
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    What's the big difference between life and non-life?
    Intelligence.
  11. Standard memberNemesio
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    30 Mar '07 22:33
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    Well, come to think of it, if you can prove to me that the scientist had no intelligence, then possibly it could provide some form of credibility to an unintelligent process such as evolution.
    Yes or no. If a scientist was able to make life from primordial soup
    (you know, unliving proteins flopping around in a decidely warm
    environment with lightning and the whole kit and kaboodle), would
    you then believe that evolution was a reasonable theory?

    Nemesio
  12. Standard memberNemesio
    Ursulakantor
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    30 Mar '07 22:34
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    Intelligence.
    Are you nuts? Are you suggesting sea sponges have intelligence?
    Or jellyfish? Or spirogira?
  13. Standard memberscottishinnz
    Kichigai!
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    31 Mar '07 00:22
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    Intelligence.
    How intelligent in an amoeba? Or an E. coli?
  14. Standard memberbuffalobill
    Major Bone
    On yer tail ...
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    31 Mar '07 06:53
    I think someone needs to define what they mean by intelligence.
  15. Joined
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    31 Mar '07 07:51
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    Yes or no. If a scientist was able to make life from primordial soup
    (you know, unliving proteins flopping around in a decidely warm
    environment with lightning and the whole kit and kaboodle), would
    you then believe that evolution was a reasonable theory?

    Nemesio
    First define what you mean by 'evolution'. The term is used to mean many things.
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