Originally posted by KellyJay I believe you should be able to buy and sell land, food, cars, toys, cloths, or
pretty much what ever. I'm not a fond believer in being owned by the state.
Kelly
do you not think it feels morally wrong to own parts of the earth. who has the right to sell it to you?
Originally posted by AThousandYoung Owning your own home is not what the song is talking about. Its talking about absentee landlords.
the song is historical recount of the diggers and their rebellion against landowners, but there are lines in the song that reach further than those events. one says 'the sin of property we do disdain'. to me that means all private ownership of land.
What do people think of the feudal system where a small number of rich people owned all the land, then exploited everyone else to the point of making them virtually slaves as they had no choice but to work for someone else in order to have land to live on.
Originally posted by wolfgang59 As a non-theist I feel most "spiritual" when in the great outdoors; near the sea,
a river, mountains or just wandering across moors. This debate is certainly not
out of place in this forum.
My own - not very well thought out - feeling is that we are temporary guardians of the land our homes are on. When we die what we care for should pass back to ...[text shortened]... leased from the community and nobody needs recreational land bigger than an acre (4000 cu. m.)
I see no reason why anyone should think of themselves as the fair police on what
someone else owns as far as land goes or for that matter how much money some
one else makes.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJay I see no reason why anyone should think of themselves as the fair police on what
someone else owns as far as land goes or for that matter how much money some
one else makes.
Kelly
OK
Would you like a PM before we dare debate the issue?
Originally posted by KellyJay I see no reason why anyone should think of themselves as the fair police on what
someone else owns as far as land goes or for that matter how much money some
one else makes.
Kelly
Yet you seem to object when the 'someone else' is the state. In Zambia, all land is owned by the state and only leased to individuals or companies.
And I see no reason why anyone cannot think of themselves as the fair police regarding any matter whatsoever. Some things are just downright unfair, and anyone has the right to say so, and possibly even do something about it.
Originally posted by KellyJay I see no reason why anyone should think of themselves as the fair police on what
someone else owns as far as land goes or for that matter how much money some
one else makes.
Kelly
where would you be without the 'fair police' at the boston tea party? or the french revolution?
is you have no problem with how much money a person can own. how would you feel if 1 person had 99.9% of the planets money?
Originally posted by stellspalfie the song is historical recount of the diggers and their rebellion against landowners, but there are lines in the song that reach further than those events. one says 'the sin of property we do disdain'. to me that means all private ownership of land.
I agree. Owning ones own home is not private property though. Private property is that which is rented out by the absentee owner for a profit.
Originally posted by stellspalfie one of my favorite songs has the lyric -
'the sin of property, we do disdain, no man has the right to buy and sell the land for private gain'.
as an atheist home owner it often plays on my conscience, i pretty much agree with the lyric and am therefore being a giant hypocrite.
the song is based on a english 1600's christian movement called th ...[text shortened]... think theists and non-theists included.
(be warned, ive got my serious debate face on)
Winstanley was right. Private property is mankind's original sin. All other crimes, abuses and trepidations took form in its pestilential wake. Home ownership is the means by which the economic elite bind enough of the populace to an economic system that is antithetical to their actual interests. Just enough of the people are given just enough of an interest in the system to ensure sufficient collaboration for its continued maintenance. Although your home is perhaps the biggest link in the chain that binds you to that system of iniquities, simply abandoning that home will do nothing to change the way that system itself actually works. While your long term goal should be to completely destroy all property relations among mankind, it must be borne in mind that it cannot be accomplished in one fell swoop. Some intermediary steps may be in order first.
Originally posted by RJHinds It is ridiculous to me to say land ownership is a sin. Even crazy. 😏
Mankind lived the first 95% of its history without any concept of land ownership. Land ownership is an aberration. Just because it's all you're used to, or capable of conceptualizing, doesn't mean it's right, or even normal. There are Christian groups, like the Hutterites (as I'm sure you're well aware) who practice a complete community of goods, as they interpret the bible as instructing them to. One of the very first Christian groups, the Ebionites, may very well have done the same thing. You, RJHinds, with your exclusionary avarice, are a servant of the devil.
06 Feb '13 22:11
the sin of property.
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