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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. 15 Sep '18 17:57
    In a different thread I mentioned Job, and felt a discussion of suffering would warrant its own thread.

    In the book of Job, we see that God allowed vast amounts of suffering in Job's life, and it's worth noting that Job apparently did NOT deserve this suffering because he is known as righteous.

    The point here is that most Christians blame ALL suffering on man's actions alone, and neatly remove God from the suffering equation.

    If God allowed satan to basically destroy Job's life in that 'bet'......then who are we to say that this still doesn't happen today? It gets old to hear that 'free will' is the root of all suffering, because it may not be true at all.

    If Job suffered innocently, then we can suffer innocently, with God's approval, and nothing at all to do with us having brought it upon ourselves with free will.
  2. 15 Sep '18 18:18
    Originally posted by @chaney3
    The point here is that most Christians blame ALL suffering on man's actions alone, and neatly remove God from the suffering equation.
    I don’t.
  3. 15 Sep '18 18:36
    Originally posted by @chaney3
    In a different thread I mentioned Job, and felt a discussion of suffering would warrant its own thread.

    In the book of Job, we see that God allowed vast amounts of suffering in Job's life, and it's worth noting that Job apparently did NOT deserve this suffering because he is known as righteous.

    The point here is that most Christians blame ALL sufferin ...[text shortened]... od's approval, and nothing at all to do with us having brought it upon ourselves with free will.
    to be honest, things like this happen all the time. Your child is born emotioaly autistic. He doesnt have that exterior appearance of some autistics. while in his teens, he visits a neighborhood friend. the friends uncle is watching porn. Emotionally autistic children process things diferently than normal children. He acts out what he sees on another child, pre teen.

    This is my oldest son.
    At the age of 15 he was prossicuted as a sex offender. The procicuting attorny wanted to through the book at him. Adult prison. in the end he went to a teen prison till 21.

    I cried a lot in those years. He is my son. autistic. it was a tough time for my wife and myself.

    Did i blame God, never. i dont understand all of Gods purposes, but i know He was with my son.
    I gave my son to Him, into his care. from my heart.

    my son is married now. he still struggles with his autism, but he is ok. and my bond with him is greater than it ever was.

    I tell you about all this because like Job, my son was a righteous young man. what he was born with, was it any ones fault? his fault? Something God allowed!
  4. 15 Sep '18 18:49
    Originally posted by @pudgenik
    to be honest, things like this happen all the time. Your child is born emotioaly autistic. He doesnt have that exterior appearance of some autistics. while in his teens, he visits a neighborhood friend. the friends uncle is watching porn. Emotionally autistic children process things diferently than normal children. He acts out what he sees on another chil ...[text shortened]... teous young man. what he was born with, was it any ones fault? his fault? Something God allowed!
    Some people believe that God creates us, then just steps out of the way. Doesn't get involved with our lives at all.
    Indifference towards us.
    Prayer would be useless if this were the case.
  5. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    15 Sep '18 18:58
    Originally posted by @chaney3
    In a different thread I mentioned Job, and felt a discussion of suffering would warrant its own thread.

    In the book of Job, we see that God allowed vast amounts of suffering in Job's life, and it's worth noting that Job apparently did NOT deserve this suffering because he is known as righteous.

    The point here is that most Christians blame ALL sufferin ...[text shortened]... od's approval, and nothing at all to do with us having brought it upon ourselves with free will.
    God certainly chastens His children. That’s throughout the Bible.
  6. 15 Sep '18 19:03
    Originally posted by @romans1009
    God certainly chastens His children. That’s throughout the Bible.
    So what are you saying?
    Is God responsible for some suffering, or is the fault always that of His 'children'?
  7. 16 Sep '18 02:40
    Originally posted by @chaney3
    In a different thread I mentioned Job, and felt a discussion of suffering would warrant its own thread.

    In the book of Job, we see that God allowed vast amounts of suffering in Job's life, and it's worth noting that Job apparently did NOT deserve this suffering because he is known as righteous.

    The point here is that most Christians blame ALL sufferin ...[text shortened]... od's approval, and nothing at all to do with us having brought it upon ourselves with free will.
    Does this mean then the old conservative saying "the poor are that way because they want to be" isn't always true?? I find that reassuring.
  8. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    16 Sep '18 02:52
    Originally posted by @chaney3
    Some people believe that God creates us, then just steps out of the way. Doesn't get involved with our lives at all.
    Indifference towards us.
    Prayer would be useless if this were the case.
    They would be deists.
  9. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    16 Sep '18 03:31
    Originally posted by @chaney3
    So what are you saying?
    Is God responsible for some suffering, or is the fault always that of His 'children'?
    He chastens us to correct us so in that sense we bring it on ourselves, but I think some trials are a test of our faith and are designed to draw us closer to God and teach us to rely on Him
  10. 16 Sep '18 03:33
    Originally posted by @fmf
    They would be deists.
    They would be wrong.
  11. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    16 Sep '18 08:17 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @secondson
    They would be wrong.
    The point being, chaney3 is mistaken if he thinks Christians are the... "Some people [who] believe that God creates us, then just steps out of the way. Doesn't get involved with our lives at all. Indifference towards us." People with those beliefs are deists rather than theists. That you think deists are wrong, and that you are right, is beside the point.
  12. Standard member KellyJay
    Walk your Faith
    16 Sep '18 08:27
    Originally posted by @chaney3
    In a different thread I mentioned Job, and felt a discussion of suffering would warrant its own thread.

    In the book of Job, we see that God allowed vast amounts of suffering in Job's life, and it's worth noting that Job apparently did NOT deserve this suffering because he is known as righteous.

    The point here is that most Christians blame ALL sufferin ...[text shortened]... od's approval, and nothing at all to do with us having brought it upon ourselves with free will.
    There is a lot of suffering in this life brought about by our actions; however, you are quite
    correct too not all. In this life we are not promised a pain free life, what we are told is that
    good and bad things happen to every one of us, when it rains outside the good and the
    bad all get wet, we are promised that in this life we will face tribulation. We can think of
    ourselves as little animals in a cage getting poked by God and the devil with sticks if we
    want, we can cry woe is me I have no recourse, there is no escape, they just want to
    poke me and see what I'll do, I must sit here and suffer.

    This life isn’t the end, it isn’t the goal in this life to acquire all the cool stuff, to pleasure
    ourselves every chance we get in all manner of ways. The only real way to overcome all
    the good and bad things this life produces for us is to crucify ourselves, taking it all in as
    the path God has for us, thanking Him in all things in our walk with God, acknowledging
    Him in everything for His will for us. Good and bad things will occur, but He promises us
    that He would never leave us or forsake us.

    From experience I can tell you that even in some of the very worse things that can
    happen, God can be right there with us, helping us through, and we can be destroyed by
    what we would think were good things occurring too, by going off the deep end losing
    track of what is important to the point of ruining everything around us.

    We are in a world where we have adversaries both physically and spiritually, but with
    God it doesn’t matter, they can only harm our bodies, but that which is God’s is eternal
    and returns to God. Even if our lives are ended here, that doesn’t mean our lives are
    ended, we just move into the eternal from this temporary life. It is written there is a day
    appointed where we move on, then the judgment. In Christ we don't have to fear that
    judgment He took us in by taking our sins upon Himself so we could be redeemed. This
    means nothing about our lives here should cause us fear, God has us and if this life ends
    for us, God has us.
  13. 16 Sep '18 13:55
    Originally posted by @fmf
    The point being, chaney3 is mistaken if he thinks Christians are the... "Some people [who] believe that God creates us, then just steps out of the way. Doesn't get involved with our lives at all. Indifference towards us." People with those beliefs are deists rather than theists. That you think deists are wrong, and that you are right, is beside the point.
    So what's the point in being a deist if you're wrong?
  14. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    16 Sep '18 14:17
    Originally posted by @secondson
    So what's the point in being a deist if you're wrong?
    You can argue with deists about that if that's what you want to do. But meanwhile, they believe [as far as I am aware] that God created humans and then just stepped out of the way and hasn't got involved with our lives. chaney3 is mistaken if he thinks that this is a Christian school of thought.
  15. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    16 Sep '18 14:19
    Originally posted by @secondson
    So what's the point in being a deist if you're wrong?
    ...the point in being a deist...

    It's just another way of trying to make sense of life and the universe.