29 Apr 13
Originally posted by stellspalfieGood questions for sure and we all have questioned these things too. But the only information we have as of now is his words in the bible.
i know you guys dont like to question god......but, what did he do before the whole earth,bible,destruction,jesus,love thing? did he experience love before he thought of us.........if not, did we create love?
Really all we know about the time before he created us is his creating of the universe and all one has to do is look up at night and see that he has been busy for a long time with his son by his side.
So those great questions are not answered in the bible, but he promisses in the future that new scrolls wil be opened. So perhaps when mans relationship is restored with him, he will let us know more about himself and the past before man existed.
29 Apr 13
Originally posted by galveston75The Bible is written by men not any God.
Good questions for sure and we all have questioned these things too. But the only information we have as of now is his words in the bible.
Really all we know about the time before he created us is his creating of the universe and all one has to do is look up at night and see that he has been busy for a long time with his son by his side.
So those g ...[text shortened]... ip is restored with him, he will let us know more about himself and the past before man existed.
Why do you insist that this book is the word of God
when it was written by fallible men?
Men who are imperfect and have their own agendas.
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29 Apr 13
1 edit
Originally posted by johnnylongwoodyYou do not believe that God could use fallible men to write a book for God ?
The Bible is written by men not any God.
Why do you insist that this book is the word of God
when it was written by fallible men?
Men who are imperfect and have their own agendas.
Christians believe that God could communicate through a book using men. We believe this book reflects different styles based on the human agent being inspired at the time.
So we believe the Psalms refects David's style yet is the word of God.
The Proverbs reflect Solomon's style yet is the word of God.
Isaiah has his flavor.
Jeremiah has his flavor.
Paul his flavor is reflected in his letters.
And John, James, Peter, Matthew, and Luke to name a few authors, also wrote with their respective styles.
Yet the product is the communication of the eternal God to man.
Man being fallible did not stop God from inspiring the Bible from being written.
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30 Apr 13
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Originally posted by stellspalfieMaybe you can use some of your own interpretive skills to get some of your answers.
i know you guys dont like to question god......but, what did he do before the whole earth,bible,destruction,jesus,love thing? did he experience love before he thought of us.........if not, did we create love?
How would you interpret this sentence spoken within the prayer of Jesus ?
" ... for You [His Father] have loved Me before the foundation of the world." (John 17:24)
How would you understand the phrase "before the foundation of the world" ?
Though the phrase sounds somewhat poetic, what do you think "before the foundation of the world" means in the mind of Jesus ?
What do you think He means that the Father loved Him before the foundation of the world ? You interpret this phraseology for yourself.
Do you think that the love of the Father for the Son was something that had to wait until the world was created ? Or does the phrasing suggest that the love preceeded the creation of the world ?
Which would you say was first then - the love of the Father for the Son or the creation of the world ?
When you think about this do you get at least some of your answers ?
What would you think about a passage that tells us that God is love ?
"Beloved, let us love one another. For love is of God and everyone that loves is born of God and knows God ... for God is love." (See 1 John 4:7,8)
How would you understand "God is love"?
Might that mean that as long as God has been divine love has also been ?
If it is an attribute of God - "God is love" , might that suggest something about divine love's existence in, say, eternity ?
30 Apr 13
Originally posted by sonshipExcellent.. One needs to remember that God would not allow any of those men to write what he did not approve of. It is his words even though those men wrote them.
You do not believe that God could use fallible men to write a book for God ?
Christians believe that God could communicate through a book using men. We believe this book reflects different styles based on the human agent being inspired at the time.
So we believe the Psalms refects David's style yet is the word of God.
The Proverbs reflect Solomon' ...[text shortened]... God to man.
Man being fallible did not stop God from inspiring the Bible from being written.
I believe on a few occasions that they even said they had no understanding of what they wrote but yet they followed Gods input to write exactly what he wanted.
30 Apr 13
Originally posted by galveston75The same god that created William Shakespeare wrote that pile of nonsense!
... God would not allow any of those men to write what he did not approve of. It is his words even though those men wrote them.
...they followed Gods input to write exactly what he wanted.
Do you not think an omnipotent god would be a better wordsmith?
30 Apr 13
Originally posted by galveston75What evidence do you have to back this assertion and which might persuade a non-Christian to come around to believing the same thing as you in this matter?
It is his words even though those men wrote them. I believe on a few occasions that they even said they had no understanding of what they wrote but yet they followed Gods input to write exactly what he wanted.
30 Apr 13
Originally posted by FMFI have no power to persuade anyone to believe anything. If it's not in there heart, nothing I could say would make them "come around".
What evidence do you have to back this assertion and which might persuade a non-Christian to come around to believing the same thing as you in this matter?
30 Apr 13
1 edit
Originally posted by galveston75I am not claiming to be the best writer of all time (like your god is) but to be
So his words do not meet with your approval I see. Lets see you write a book such as the Bible...
frank it would not be difficult to produce something of the bible's standard.
Something better than The Chronicles of Narnia, Lord of the Rings or
Grimm's Fairy Tales would be impossible for me to even come close.
30 Apr 13
Originally posted by galveston75If all you can come up with is that it is there, in your heart, do you accept that it is perfectly reasonable for someone to be unconvinced by what you and others claim about the Bible's authorship?
I have no power to persuade anyone to believe anything. If it's not in there heart, nothing I could say would make them "come around".
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30 Apr 13
Originally posted by sonshipgod is love. so god loved before man before man was created. god has always been aware of everything so has always loved those things, time is meaningless and has no context in gods love.
Maybe you can use some of your own interpretive skills to get some of your answers.
How would you interpret this sentence spoken within the prayer of Jesus ?
[b]" ... for You [His Father] have loved Me before the foundation of the world." (John 17:24)
How would you understand the phrase "before the foundation of the world" ...[text shortened]... /b], might that suggest something about divine love's existence in, say, eternity ?[/b]
i was going somewhere else, but this constant use of the world 'love' is interesting.
does the bible define what love is? i feel various forms of love and they are all very different.
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30 Apr 13
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god is love. so god loved before man before man was created. god has always been aware of everything so has always loved those things, time is meaningless and has no context in gods love.
I asked you to use your own interpretive thoughts and gave you a few passages. It seems you have begun to do that.
I am told that God inhabits eternity.
"Thus says the high and exalted One, Who inhabits eternity ..." (Isaiah 57:15a)
If we simply stop there we might think time is meaningless to God or that he has no use for time. But this is only the first part of the passage. It goes on -
"For thus says the high and exalted One Who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy:
I will dwell in the high and holy place, AND with the contrite and lowly of spirit, To revive the spirit of the lowly, And to revive the heart of the contrite."
God would DWELL or LIVE in eternity, in a high and loftly place but ALSO dwell with those creatures of time, like man. His being is indestructible and knows no weariness. But He creature man, in the realm of time, is comparatively lowly (or should feel so) and may need reviving.
It is God's pleasure to inhabit eternity and to also dwell with man or inhabit His loved people in their realm of time. So though God transcends time I would not say that time is meaningless to Him.
God has created a realm in which other beings who are not God may exist. Time has meaning for Him because it has meaning to the man whom He created and loves and seeks to dwell with.
The dwelling with in this passage, I think, should not be taken in a superficial way. Rather than imagining God living along side of man to be "dwelling with" we see in Christ God and man mingled together.
Then the God who inhabits eternity was interwoven and mingled in perfect union with Christ the Son of God. When I think of God dwelling with the contrite and lowly I think of the ultimate expression of this relationship - the incarnation of God in a man.
This man spoke of Him being in the Father and the Father being in Him -
"Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me ? The words that I say to you I do not speak from Myself, but the Father who abides in Me does His works."
In history, in the earth then, we had a testimony of the God Who inhabits eternity dwelling in eternity and with the contrite and lowly man simultaneously. God spoke His desire. Then God SHOWED us what He spoke. He manifested His desire.
Now He seeks to expand that desire to those who believe into Christ.
That is to dispense Himself into other men and women.
Speaking of the day they believe in His resurrection He says -
"In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you." (John 14:20)
i was going somewhere else, but this constant use of the world 'love' is interesting.
does the bible define what love is? i feel various forms of love and they are all very different.
Yuo might begin your meditation on this by reaslizing in the Greek NT there are three words (at aleast) used for our English word love.
Without me double checking this I think you have a phileo as a kind of brotherly love. You have eros as a romantic love. And I think you have agape as the highest divine love.
Bottom line is that indeed there are different words used in the Greek for our English word love. Greek is a very rich language. And it is understandable that God spoke His new testament oracles to us in such a rich language as Greek.
I did not say God is Greek. I did not say God favors the Greeks. I simply said that He chose Greek language to communicate the New Testament oracles to the world. He chose Hebrew to speak to us the Old Testament oracles. A small section of the OT is in Chaldean I believe in the book of Daniel, (I think).
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30 Apr 13
Originally posted by sonshipother than the love for his creations, does god experience any other love?god is love. so god loved before man before man was created. god has always been aware of everything so has always loved those things, time is meaningless and has no context in gods love.
I asked you to use your own interpretive thoughts and gave you a few passages. It seems you have begun to do that.
I am told that God inhabits ete ...[text shortened]... small section of the OT is in Chaldean I believe in the book of Daniel, (I think).