1. Standard membersonship
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    16 Aug '16 20:09
    This thread will be about the Trinity as seen in Revelation 4 and 5 along with some other interesting exegesis of those two chapters.

    I do not consider my interpretations to be infallible. I believe anyone reading aloud or reading the two chapters with a heart turned towards God will be blessed.

    'Hear O israel, Yahweh our God is one"

    Now to the splendid Revelation chapters four and five.
  2. Standard membersonship
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    16 Aug '16 20:22
    After these things I saw; and behold, a door opened in heaven, and the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, Come up here, and I will show you the things that mist take place after these things.

    Immediatly I was in spirit; and behold, there was a throne set in heaven, and upon the throne was One sitting." (Rev. 4:1,2)


    The spirit is in small s because it stands for the human spirit.

    The heavens are opened up several times in the Bible when God had a man on earth who was opened hearted completely to Him. To such ones as Daniel, Ezekiel, and Isaiah, for example - God OPENED the heavens, pulled back the obscuring veil and revealed to man the things concerning that transcending realm.

    The Apostle John was so close to the Lord Jesus. And to John the heavens were opened. In spirit he saw things concerning what was taking place there in Heaven and things concerning the future of the universe.

    I am going to focus on the revelation of the Triune God which John saw. We should consider these visions as SIGNS. For John said the whole revelation was made known to him by signs - meaning symbolic like pictures.

    "The revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave to HIm to show His slaves th things that must quickly take place;

    and He made it known by signs, sending it by His angel to His slave John." (Rev. 1:1)
  3. SubscriberSuzianne
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    16 Aug '16 20:24
    Originally posted by sonship
    This thread will be about the Trinity as seen in [b]Revelation 4 and 5 along with some other interesting exegesis of those two chapters.

    I do not consider my interpretations to be infallible. I believe anyone reading aloud or reading the two chapters with a heart turned towards God will be blessed.

    'Hear O israel, Yahweh our God is one"

    Now to the splendid Revelation chapters four and five.[/b]
    Not to throw cold water on this, but Revelation is not a book for Biblical neophytes. I suppose that this is why it was brought up in another thread, because beginners to the Bible rarely see the advantage of taking this book seriously, especially at first. Most usually don't encounter this book until they've been Bible reading for a while. There's a reason why it is last, besides the obvious content of it. It brings together many advanced ideas about this religion, ones that might not be considered in their entirety until the rest of the Bible is examined.
  4. Standard membersonship
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    16 Aug '16 20:303 edits
    Hear O Israel, Yahweh our God is one. Amen!

    First we see a picture sign of the Father and the eternal Spirit. Latter we will see the Lamb, the Redeemer, the Son of God. This is in chapter five.

    " ... and upon the throne was One sitting.

    And He who was sitting was like a jasper stone and a sardius in appearance. and there was a rainbow around the throne like an emerald in appearance.

    And around the throne there were twenty-four thrones, and upon the thrones twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white garments, and upon thier heads golden crowns..

    And out of the throne come forth lightnings and voices and thunders. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne which are the seven Spirits of God." (vs. 2b-5)
  5. Standard membersonship
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    16 Aug '16 20:404 edits
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Not to throw cold water on this, but Revelation is not a book for Biblical neophytes. I suppose that this is why it was brought up in another thread, because beginners to the Bible rarely see the advantage of taking this book seriously, especially at first.


    I am going to try to include things only which are helpful to most readers. That is as they point to God. I will consider what people are able to take.

    I will try to expound the most helpful things to aid in getting the best out of this profound and difficult book.


    Most usually don't encounter this book until they've been Bible reading for a while.


    I agree. I will attempt to briefly give some supporting helpful explanation from elsewhere in the Bible.

    At the end you may give me a grade from A to F. I will learn something too.


    There's a reason why it is last, besides the obvious content of it. It brings together many advanced ideas about this religion, ones that might not be considered in their entirety until the rest of the Bible is examined.


    I am mostly going to attempt to stay mainly in chapters 4 and 5, But some touching of latter chapters will be used.

    I have nothing to say here about frogs, dragons, demons, hail, horns, killer bees.
    The focus is the Triune God.

    This is a book about the Revelation of Jesus Christ ... of Jesus Christ ... of Jesus Christ.
    It is not mainly the Revelation of Antichrist and dragons and earthquakes. Though these things are of course seen.

    My burden is Jesus Christ and the Trinity in chapters four and five.
    You can always pray that God would guide me, would guide us who believe.
    And pray that seekers may receive some help TO become believers.
  6. SubscriberFMF
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    16 Aug '16 20:53
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Not to throw cold water on this, but Revelation is not a book for Biblical neophytes. I suppose that this is why it was brought up in another thread, because beginners to the Bible rarely see the advantage of taking this book seriously, especially at first.
    You actually believe that sonship's target audience here on this forum is "beginners to the Bible"?
  7. Standard membersonship
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    16 Aug '16 20:561 edit
    The throne John saw is a central place of God's administration and government over the entire universe.

    The One sitting on the throne is God the Father. The color of this One is JASPER and SARDIUS.

    I only have a desire to mention something about JASPER-

    "And He who sits upon the throne was like a jasper stone and a sardius in appearance."


    I believe the jasper here is the deep dark GREEN kind. Jasper comes in other colors.

    The deep dark GREEN God signifies God as the rich, eternal LIFE. What does God look like ? God looks like the riches of life. God appears as the fullness of life.

    The trees, the grass, the plants are mostly green. Green stands for life. Jasper stands for the deepest and riches life - the Divine and Uncreated life of the Self Existent God. He is the Eternal Father.

    God appears in the sign as the richness of life.
    His life is rich to the point of being glorious and dazzling.

    When we examine Jesus Christ, in a sense, we also see the richness of life.
    Surely Jesus Christ's life was the deepest, fullest, riches expression of living.

    The Father on the throne is the very Source of life.
    All lives derive from Him. And He is the Uncreated and eternal Source of all living.

    The sardus stone is a red stone. And this probably stands for God the redemption of creation and man which has its source in God. Red is also the color of blood for redemption of sinners out from under the Law of God.


    But more about Jasper below.
  8. SubscriberFMF
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    16 Aug '16 21:04
    Originally posted by sonship
    I do not consider my interpretations [of Revelation 4 and 5] to be infallible. I believe anyone reading aloud or reading the two chapters with a heart turned towards God will be blessed.
    Do you consider your interpretations of Revelation 4 and 5 to be "blessed"?
  9. Standard membersonship
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    16 Aug '16 21:05
    "And there was a rainbow around the throne like an emerald in appearance." (3b)


    Two matters here are important.

    1.) the rainbow

    2.) the appearance of emerald (green)

    The rainbow hearkens back to God's promise to Noah. God covenants that He would not totally destroy all life in His judgment. This rainbow was shown to Noah after the flood.

    The book of Revelation contains much divine judgment upon the earth. The rainbow around the throne of the Creator reminds us that in judgment God will not totally wipe out all life. The rainbow is green and appears as emerald. This signifies that the lives on earth are precious in the sight of God.

    Around His throne the emerald colored rainbow is a promise that the lives God has created are precious to Him and He will not totally destroy the earth in judgment against the sin and rebellion of the bad angels and the fallen human race that followed Satan.

    At the end of the book of Revelation we do see God creates a new heaven and a new earth in which righteousness dwells for eternity. This is in chapters 21 and 22.
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    16 Aug '16 21:241 edit
    Originally posted by sonship
    Hear O Israel, Yahweh our God is one.
    Yes, not ... three.

    Four is definite your of the question.
  11. Standard membersonship
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    17 Aug '16 00:465 edits
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Yes, not ... three.

    Four is definite your of the question.
    In Revelation 4 so far we have seen One sitting upon the throne. Before this One there are seven lamps of fire which are the seven Spirits of God.

    You have then One of the Trinity and another of the Trinity. You have the Father and the Holy Spirit. Now my task is to prove that "the seven Spirits" represent the Holy Spirit.

    " And out of the throne came forth lightnings and voices and thunders. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne which are the seven Spirits of God." (v.5)


    The First Evidence:

    The Seven Spirits of God are ranked with God and the Son in the salutation of the book of Revelation:

    " John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from

    Him who is and who was and who is coming,
    [ the Father]

    and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne. [the Holy Spirit]

    and from Jesus Christ, the faithful Witness, the Firstborn from the dead, and the Ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and has released us from our sins by His blood. [ the Son] (Rev. 1:4,5)


    The seven Spirits before God's throne are ranked with God and His Son. It is not likely that John means the grace and peace are from a "Person" plus a mere force plus another "Person".

    Rather it is more likely the salutation of grace and peace are from a "Person" plus a "Person" plus a "Person".

    This should be enough to convince us that, though the order is rearranged from Matthew 28:20 the Three of the Godhead are intended:

    Matthew 28:20 - the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit

    Revelation 1:4,5 Him who is and who was and who is to come and the seven Spirits and the Jesus Christ Ie - the Father - the Holy Spirit - the Son

    Further evidence that the seven Spirits are the "Person" of the Holy Spirit below.
  12. SubscriberSuzianne
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    17 Aug '16 02:00
    Originally posted by FMF
    You actually believe that sonship's target audience here on this forum is "beginners to the Bible"?
    No, those are rarely his 'target audience', but somehow it never stops those ignorant of biblical concepts from criticizing him.
  13. SubscriberSuzianne
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    17 Aug '16 02:03
    Originally posted by sonship
    Not to throw cold water on this, but Revelation is not a book for Biblical neophytes. I suppose that this is why it was brought up in another thread, because beginners to the Bible rarely see the advantage of taking this book seriously, especially at first.


    I am going to try to include things only which are helpful to most readers. Tha ...[text shortened]... , would guide us who believe.
    And pray that seekers may receive some help TO become believers.
    Pardon my interruption.

    Please, continue.
  14. SubscriberFMF
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    17 Aug '16 02:07
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    No, those are rarely his 'target audience', but somehow it never stops those ignorant of biblical concepts from criticizing him.
    So if "beginners to the Bible" and "neophytes", aren't who you think he is addressing here, then why on earth would you say "Not to throw cold water on this, but Revelation is not a book for Biblical neophytes. I suppose that this is why it was brought up in another thread, because beginners to the Bible rarely see the advantage of taking this book seriously, especially at first"?
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    17 Aug '16 06:032 edits
    Originally posted by sonship
    Now my task is to prove that "the seven Spirits" represent the Holy Spirit.
    As time passes it becomes clearer to me how strange some of your beliefs are. It is astonishing that none of the other Christians here (apart from Rajk999) call you out over the error your propagate in this forum. Notably, none stand with you either, so I don't see it as others agreeing with you. I can only assume that their dislike for me is more important to them than defending truth.
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