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    19 Dec '12 10:00
    As shocking and sad the Connecticut shootings were, it boggles the mind that the thousands of innocent children killed and maimed in the Iraq/Afghanistan wars by the mighty USA are less sensational. Could it be that the value of a child's life varies according to nationality and/or financial status?
  2. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    19 Dec '12 11:231 edit
    Originally posted by dunetwo

    As shocking and sad the Connecticut shootings were, it boggles the mind that the thousands of innocent children killed and maimed in the Iraq/Afghanistan wars by the mighty USA are less sensational. Could it be that the value of a child's life varies according to nationality and/or financial status?
    Freedom through military victory still serves as the survival principle in an evil world. Non-Combatant Citizen death is an inevitable consequences of war. Only one question remains, was the war in question justified and in the overall best interest of the USA. Source of the rest of all uninformed media hype is now, as always, bleeding heart sentiment and raw emotion. Sad thing, the way the majority of voters and non-voters buy in.
    -
  3. Joined
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    19 Dec '12 12:442 edits
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Freedom through military victory still serves as the survival principle in an evil world. Non-Combatant Citizen death is an inevitable consequences of war. Only one question remains, was the war in question justified and in the overall best interest of the USA. Source of the rest of all uninformed media hype is now, as always, bleeding heart sentiment and raw emotion. Sad thing, the way the majority of voters and non-voters buy in.
    -
    "Non-Combatant Citizen Death"? "Collateral Damage"? "Spin" worthy of Madison Avenue. Remarkable how many buy into propaganda.

    Perhaps you should reflect on how Hussein was routinely portrayed as "targeting innocent civilians" with the scud missle launches when they would miss their intended targets. However when it's the US, it is "Non-Combatant Citizen Death" and "Collateral Damage".
  4. Subscribersonhouse
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    19 Dec '12 12:522 edits
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    "Non-Combatant Citizen death"? "Collateral damage"? "Spin" worthy of Madison Avenue. Remarkable how many buy into propaganda.

    Perhaps you should reflect on how Hussein was routinely portrayed as "targeting innocent civilians" with the scud missle launches when they would miss their intended targets. However when it's the US, it is "Non-Combatant Citizen death".
    To say nothing of the thousands of Kurds he killed with chemical weapons. They were targeted. Any deaths of children by the USA were not deliberate acts.

    You should note the difference.

    Also perhaps you should bring up 33 MILLION deaths the Chinese inflicted on their own population during the early communist years.

    Or the 3 million killed by Pol Pot of his own people.

    I don't see you railing against those killings.

    And millions more killed by the early communist times in Soviet Russia.

    I guess those deaths don't count since the USA didn't do them.

    Let's see, 50 million killed EXTREMELY deliberately by communists, what did you say? 3000 kids killed accidentally by the US in the Afgan wars?

    Why don't you make a big push to try to rectify THOSE deaths, eh?

    I guess for you it's a wash. 50 Million killed by commies is not as bad as 3000 killed by the USA. So if the US army kills ONE person, then it's ok for commies or other bad guys to kill 16,000, then things are equal in your eyes.
  5. Joined
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    19 Dec '12 13:063 edits
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    To say nothing of the thousands of Kurds he killed with chemical weapons. They were targeted. Any deaths of children by the USA were not deliberate acts.

    You should note the difference.

    Also perhaps you should bring up 33 MILLION deaths the Chinese inflicted on their own population during the early communist years.

    Or the 3 million killed by Pol it's ok for commies or other bad guys to kill 16,000, then things are equal in your eyes.
    I guess for you it's a wash. 50 Million killed by commies is not as bad as 3000 killed by the USA. So if the US army kills ONE person, then it's ok for commies or other bad guys to kill 16,000, then things are equal in your eyes.

    Seriously? Perhaps you can point out where in my post I said or even implied any of those things. This is but one example of many a straw man.

    Any deaths of children by the USA were not deliberate acts.

    Seriously? From my understanding, many a time the US has launched strikes with the knowledge that children would likely/possibly be killed. In what way were those acts "not deliberate"?

    Seems you need a reality check.
  6. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    19 Dec '12 14:091 edit
    Impression was that the OP focused on Connecticut and this country's forays into wars. Atrocities in other lands must be heartrending, I'm sure, but well beyond my personal awareness or knowledge. As to the only sound principle of national freedom, I'm at a complete loss as to what alternative options may pop up if all who've posted here, so far, googled and kept on googling their otherwise well informed minds.
  7. Subscribersonhouse
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    21 Dec '12 18:121 edit
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    [b]I guess for you it's a wash. 50 Million killed by commies is not as bad as 3000 killed by the USA. So if the US army kills ONE person, then it's ok for commies or other bad guys to kill 16,000, then things are equal in your eyes.

    Seriously? Perhaps you can point out where in my post I said or even implied any of those things. This is but one e ...[text shortened]... be killed. In what way were those acts "not deliberate"?

    Seems you need a reality check.[/b]
    So its ok the commie countries killed over 50 million but you bash the US for accidentally killing a few thousand. Right. Of course. It doesn't matter WHAT other countries do, if the US does 1/16,000 th of the same thing the US goes down.

    Sure, that makes sense.

    BTW I mourn for all the deaths not just the ones the US caused.

    Why don't you peddle your wares in some place like, say, Syria.

    That must be the fault of the US too, right? How many do you think the Syrian government killed in their desperate fight for survival of the Assad regime?

    Just want you to put things in a larger context.

    All governments suck. What else is new?
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    21 Dec '12 19:31
    So what exactly is the "USA's interest" that would justify the killing of innocent humans/children in other countries?
  9. Joined
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    21 Dec '12 20:29
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    So its ok the commie countries killed over 50 million but you bash the US for accidentally killing a few thousand. Right. Of course. It doesn't matter WHAT other countries do, if the US does 1/16,000 th of the same thing the US goes down.

    Sure, that makes sense.

    BTW I mourn for all the deaths not just the ones the US caused.

    Why don't you peddle ...[text shortened]...
    Just want you to put things in a larger context.

    All governments suck. What else is new?
    is it sensible to equate a countries actions with history? is there a point to the comparison. there are thousands of examples you could have used both communist and non communist. its a sensible as saying -

    hey, dont criticize america military actions of killing innocent children...i dont see you complaining about the vikings or the summarians, what about those cro magnons!!

    do you have historical comparison cut of point? or does it change to suit your argument?
  10. Subscribersonhouse
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    22 Dec '12 11:36
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    is it sensible to equate a countries actions with history? is there a point to the comparison. there are thousands of examples you could have used both communist and non communist. its a sensible as saying -

    hey, dont criticize america military actions of killing innocent children...i dont see you complaining about the vikings or the summarians, what ...[text shortened]... s!!

    do you have historical comparison cut of point? or does it change to suit your argument?
    I just get pissed at people constantly putting the US in such bad light when all over the world real tyranny happens. You ever hear of Darfur? Or the wars of Sudan? Was that the fault of the US too? The rapes by the thousands? The genital mutilations? That is the fault of the US?

    And the Kurds getting gassed by Saddam is not that far in the past. I didn't bring up Cro's Vs neantertals from 50,000 years ago. I was talking about atrocities that happened in the last 100 years. And the last 10 years. And as we speak. Unspeakable atrocities against civilians and women.

    Why aren't you railing against those?

    Why is it always the US did this, the US did that, totally ignoring people like Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin and all their pals.
  11. Joined
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    22 Dec '12 19:28
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    I just get pissed at people constantly putting the US in such bad light when all over the world real tyranny happens. You ever hear of Darfur? Or the wars of Sudan? Was that the fault of the US too? The rapes by the thousands? The genital mutilations? That is the fault of the US?

    And the Kurds getting gassed by Saddam is not that far in the past. I didn' ...[text shortened]... did that, totally ignoring people like Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin and all their pals.
    "Why is it always the US did this, the US did that, totally ignoring people like Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin and all their pals"


    for a start they are all dead. all the people and countries you have mentioned are mainly viewed by society as the 'bad guys'. we expect them to do bad things. america is supposed to be a 'good guy' and part of our united nations. so it upsets everybody when america acts badly, its like watching superman 2, when superman turns into a dick.
  12. Standard memberRJHinds
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    22 Dec '12 20:112 edits
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    "Non-Combatant Citizen Death"? "Collateral Damage"? "Spin" worthy of Madison Avenue. Remarkable how many buy into propaganda.

    Perhaps you should reflect on how Hussein was routinely portrayed as "targeting innocent civilians" with the scud missle launches when they would miss their intended targets. However when it's the US, it is "Non-Combatant Citizen Death" and "Collateral Damage".
    You are one of the most ignorant and stupid posters on this forum. Saddam Hussein was targeting Israel and their citizens. The Israeli military was not even at war with him at the time. They never even fired back but allowed us to take care of him and we did.

    HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!
  13. Standard memberRJHinds
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    22 Dec '12 20:22
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    [b]"Why is it always the US did this, the US did that, totally ignoring people like Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin and all their pals"


    for a start they are all dead. all the people and countries you have mentioned are mainly viewed by society as the 'bad guys'. we expect them to do bad things. america is supposed to be a 'good guy' and part ...[text shortened]... dy when america acts badly, its like watching superman 2, when superman turns into a dick.[/b]
    If we had been good, like you say, we would have taken care of Japan only and left Hitler and Mussolini to you Europeans. However, sometimes our leaders go beyond what they should in their zeal to help out other people in their fight for freedom.
  14. Joined
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    22 Dec '12 22:28
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    If we had been good, like you say, we would have taken care of Japan only and left Hitler and Mussolini to you Europeans. However, sometimes our leaders go beyond what they should in their zeal to help out other people in their fight for freedom.
    what?
  15. Joined
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    23 Dec '12 01:321 edit
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    So its ok the commie countries killed over 50 million but you bash the US for accidentally killing a few thousand. Right. Of course. It doesn't matter WHAT other countries do, if the US does 1/16,000 th of the same thing the US goes down.

    Sure, that makes sense.

    BTW I mourn for all the deaths not just the ones the US caused.

    Why don't you peddle ...[text shortened]...
    Just want you to put things in a larger context.

    All governments suck. What else is new?
    Do you think you are being in the least rational?

    Ask yourself if I ever said or implied that "it doesn't matter what other countries do".

    You really need to get a grip. Seems your kneejerk "patriotism" has gotten the better of you.

    Try this:
    1) Take a deep breath
    2) Reread the OP
    3) Reread GBs response to the OP
    4) Reread my response to GB - the point of which was GBs mindless regurgitation of US propaganda.
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