1. Joined
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    15 May '07 01:11
    is there a point where you hit a barrier and there is no more space, or does it go on forever?
  2. Subscribersonhouse
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    15 May '07 01:36
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    is there a point where you hit a barrier and there is no more space, or does it go on forever?
    It does not go on forever, but if you think about traveling on a globe such as the earrth, you can drive a million miles, lets say there was a freeway all the way round earth on the equator, you could drive forever and not come to the end. The universe is like that but on a higher dimensional level, If you go in a straight line, at some distance point in time, lets say you are going very very close to the speed of light, you would see you came back to the same place you left. Of course you might not recognize the place when you get back, maybe 40 billion years would pass by for clocks in the universe but say only a week goes by because you are going so very close to the speed of light. You would make a one way trip 40 odd billion years in the future and you would find things a whole lot differant for sure, our galaxy would have long ago crashed into Andromeda, etc.
    If you could view the universe from a higher dimensional plane you might seee our universe as a whole, maybe some kind of sphere, maybe something else but a definite shape but from the inside you would never be able to leave it unless you could hop dimensions.
    Our best estimate of the age of the universe is now pegged at 13.7 billion years old. That said, there are parts of the universe we can no longer see because the universe has and is expanding faster than the speed of light. Space itself has no speed of light limitation. I was at a talk by Allan Guth a long time ago and he mentioned the universe in his theory of inflationary big bangness, went from a point size to the size of a basketball in something like 10^ minus 35 seconds, I forget the actual numbers but I ran that on my calculator and it seems the universe was expanding at at 22 orders of magnitude fastere than C and I asked him about it when it was time for questions and he said
    "well you did you arithmetic right" unquote🙂 He also said its STILL expanding faster than the speed of light.
    The gist of that is the universe is a lot bigger than what we can see in telescopes and now scopes are so powerful we can already see within a few hundred thousand light years from the big bang so we can pretty much see the whole of what is visible already. That said, there is a big bunch of the same universe we can't see and probably NEVER can see because its shooting away from us to fast, so the best estimate of what the size of the universe is if you were in a higher dimension and had a HUMUNGUS tape rule🙂 would be on the order of 40 to 50 billion light years across.
    Now all THAT said, assuming we are in this whatever shape it is box 50 billion LY across, there are theories, total theory so far, that our universe, that 50 billion LY wide box is just a little bubble of the REAL universe that may in fact be infinite in size, making our local universe look like a pimple on a whale, where there are trillions of such universe sized bubbles sticking out but maybe in other dimensions.
    News at 11🙂
  3. Joined
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    15 May '07 01:41
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    universe that may in fact be infinite in size
    if a universe can be infinite, why cant god be infinite, in time with no beginning and no end?
  4. Subscribersonhouse
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    15 May '07 02:08
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    if a universe can be infinite, why cant god be infinite, in time with no beginning and no end?
    So once again you reveal yourself as someone who cares little or less that that about real science but only want to push your own particular agenda. If you wanted to swing the thread in that direction why didn't you say so? I would not have wasted my time on someone who really could care less about my answer, but only wanting to twist it to your own ends. Thanks for at least revealing yourself only on your second post, you could have led me on for a much longer time and I thank you for that at least.
  5. Joined
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    15 May '07 04:46
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    So once again you reveal yourself as someone who cares little or less that that about real science but only want to push your own particular agenda. If you wanted to swing the thread in that direction why didn't you say so? I would not have wasted my time on someone who really could care less about my answer, but only wanting to twist it to your own ends. T ...[text shortened]... second post, you could have led me on for a much longer time and I thank you for that at least.
    all i did was ask you to answer a question, that i thought of after reading your post, it was not planned to happen
  6. Cape Town
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    15 May '07 06:32
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    if a universe can be infinite, why cant god be infinite, in time with no beginning and no end?
    There is no reason why a god would not be infinite. But are you talking about a physical entity or a supernatural entity? Supernatural entities are by definition not bound by the laws of physics so nothing can be said about them using physics. If you are talking about a natural entity then it has so far not been detected using any scientific instruments.
  7. Subscribersonhouse
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    15 May '07 08:48
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    There is no reason why a god would not be infinite. But are you talking about a physical entity or a supernatural entity? Supernatural entities are by definition not bound by the laws of physics so nothing can be said about them using physics. If you are talking about a natural entity then it has so far not been detected using any scientific instruments.
    The boundary between natural and supernatural is getting more blurred the more our science develops. One example is the proported dark matter supposedly interspersed in most of the galaxies in the universe, ours included, to account for the fact that said galaxies are rotating more or less as if they were on a giant platter, the center and the outer edge going together as opposed to gravity alone being center stage and the outer edges of a galaxy going a lot slower than the inner. It turns out not to be that way but more like I said, as if they were on a giant lazy susan, the explanation being there is an even larger mass of unseen and unseeable matter or something that produces gravity, enough so that it makes the effective mass of the galaxy some 5 or more times the mass we can see, which would produce the effect we see. This to me approaches the idea of supernatural but we may yet figure out what it is unless the competing theories topple that idea, like a small change in newtonian gravity at small accelerations for which we also may have evidence, in the two voyagers sent out 30 years ago which are a few hundred thousand miles off in position from where they should be if Newtonian physics is fully in charge.
  8. Cape Town
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    15 May '07 09:38
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    The boundary between natural and supernatural is getting more blurred the more our science develops. One example is the proported dark matter supposedly interspersed in most of the galaxies in the universe, ours included, to account for the fact that said galaxies are rotating more or less as if they were on a giant platter, the center and the outer edge go ...[text shortened]... housand miles off in position from where they should be if Newtonian physics is fully in charge.
    Why would you assign the term 'supernatural' to dark matter and not visible matter? You cant see radiowaves yet you don't think that they are supernatural. Neutrinos are even harder to 'see'. If dark mater exists then it is surely a physical and natural phenomenon.
    Much odder than dark matter is quantum effects where photons of light can take two different paths at the same time and then interfere with each other. Its as if the light knows where it is going before it sets off. The wave/particle duality of light is something that everybody knows about but nobody actually understands.
  9. Subscribersonhouse
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    15 May '07 15:151 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Why would you assign the term 'supernatural' to dark matter and not visible matter? You cant see radiowaves yet you don't think that they are supernatural. Neutrinos are even harder to 'see'. If dark mater exists then it is surely a physical and natural phenomenon.
    Much odder than dark matter is quantum effects where photons of light can take two differe ...[text shortened]... e duality of light is something that everybody knows about but nobody actually understands.
    I assign supernatural to dark matter precisely because we know nothing about it and so far it's just a theory that it's there at all.
    There are competing theories you know. May the best theory win.
    When we figure it out, it will enter the realm of the natural, till then dark matter is up there with leprichans.
    As for neutrino's and light wave/particle duality, maybe we don't understand it all the way to the end but both are now well known enough to make solid predictions like how light behaves when going through certain kinds of filters and such. At one time neutrino's were just a physicists theory and in the same boat as dark matter.
  10. Joined
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    16 May '07 01:31
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    There is no reason why a god would not be infinite. But are you talking about a physical entity or a supernatural entity? Supernatural entities are by definition not bound by the laws of physics so nothing can be said about them using physics. If you are talking about a natural entity then it has so far not been detected using any scientific instruments.
    im not sure if god is a physical or supernatural entity since i have never seen him/her/them
  11. Joined
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    16 May '07 06:46
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    im not sure if god is a physical or supernatural entity since i have never seen him/her/them
    Don't hold your breath; it is highly unlikely that you will ever see Him within your lifetime. What's more, there is that annoying possibility that you won't be able to see Him beyond this life either, if there is one.
  12. Cape Town
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    16 May '07 08:16
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    I assign supernatural to dark matter precisely because we know nothing about it and so far it's just a theory that it's there at all.
    There are competing theories you know. May the best theory win.
    When we figure it out, it will enter the realm of the natural, till then dark matter is up there with leprichans.
    From webster

    Supernatural
    1 : of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil
    2 a : departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature b : attributed to an invisible agent (as a ghost or spirit)

    Quite clearly dark matter does not fit the definition so you had better come up with a better word. A leprechaun does fit the definition.
    Also look up "theory" before you use it so carelessly. 'Hypothesis' would suit your meaning better.
  13. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    16 May '07 08:27
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    is there a point where you hit a barrier and there is no more space, or does it go on forever?
    What kind of space are you talking about?
  14. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    16 May '07 09:18
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    if a universe can be infinite, why cant god be infinite, in time with no beginning and no end?
    He can. Who said he can't? That is...if he exists.
  15. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    16 May '07 09:19
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    From webster

    Supernatural
    1 : of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil
    2 a : departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature b : attributed to an invisible agent (as a ghost or spirit)

    Qui ...[text shortened]... ok up "theory" before you use it so carelessly. 'Hypothesis' would suit your meaning better.
    My Mom loves those cop shows...like Law and Order. Every time the characters refer to their "theory" of how the crime happened I cringe inside.
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