The Wisdom of Witness Lee

It is a mystery to me why Ghost could see [edited] that Witness Lee's expounding of the parable of Matthew 13:24-25 is substantially any different from Christ's interpretation in verses 36-43.

I think this is what GHost may be trying to do: Ghost reaches for another paragraph to attempt to prove that it nullifies the parable and explanation of Matt. 13:24-25.

How does this paragraph render the interpretation of Christ's parable in 13:24-25 impossible ?
Ghost can explain. The burden I place on him to justify that the second paragraph renders the first wrong or vica versa.

And:

'Among the real and genuine Christians there will be a further classification. Some among these will be overcoming Christians, and others will be defeated Christians. They are real Christians, but they are defeated. They are real Christians, but their Christian life is a failure. However, the fact that it is a failure does not mean they are not real Christians. Surely they are real Christians. Thus, when the Lord comes back, we may be either overcoming ones or defeated ones.'

Without checking I am going to assume his quotations from The Kingdom by W. Lee are accurate.
What's the problem in Witness Lee's two paragraphs ?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Okay, let's consider these two passages from Lee ((The Kingdom, Chapter 39).

'At the time of the completion of the age there will be two categories of Christians. There will be the real ones, the regenerated ones, and there will be the false ones, the tares. The false ones are the nominal Christians, those who are Christian in name only. These might be called the u ...[text shortened]... real Christians. Thus, when the Lord comes back, we may be either overcoming ones or defeated ones.'

Now, it's important we view these passages through the prism of Lee's already stated belief that Christianity had become an organization of Satan. Therefore, from the two categories of Christians at the completion of the age, it is the 'false ones' who will have been condemned by Lee to Satanism. (And according to Revelations such followers are destined for hell). These Christians (helpfully identified by Lee as Protestants and Catholics) are an insult to God and will be 'burned up'.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Ghost's analysis is pretty bad. It hinges on a desperate hope he has that the rebukes about Satan's worldliness can be extrapolated to prove a hyper-sectarianism which condemns fellow believers in Christ to eternal perdition. Ghost thinks if he can make this connection he has scored a real big point against Witness Lee.

Now, it's important we view these passages through the prism of Lee's already stated belief that Christianity had become an organization of Satan.

The New Testament says that "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19) . Since Lee has echoed this, why doesn't Ghost condemn Witness Lee for teaching that without exception, EVERYONE in the whole world will be lost? He might as well accuse Witness Lee of teaching that 1 John 5:19 means NO ONE will be saved.

Therefore, from the two categories of Christians at the completion of the age, it is the 'false ones' who will have been condemned by Lee to Satanism.

So Ghost INVENTS doctrines to put into the mouth of Witness Lee. Since Witness Lee also echoed John that "the whole world lies in the evil one" Ghost can argue that not only is no one in the whole world ever saved but everyone in the world is participating in Satanism (meaning here deliberate Satan worship).

Of course Ghost's assessment of the influence of Satan is more like a child's understanding of Holloween perhaps or a good occult movie. And an organization being influenced by the Devil doesn't mean that everyone caught in it is a Devil worshipper.

This is just too good of a slander Ghosts dreams of pushing. If Satan has any influence over anything involving human beings, to Ghost that makes the human beings Satanists.

See how utterly eager Ghost is to pin Satan worship of all Christians onto Witness Lee?

What Ghost says Lee wrote in The Kingdom is this:

'At the time of the completion of the age there will be two categories of Christians. There will be the real ones, the regenerated ones, and there will be the false ones, the tares. The false ones are the nominal Christians, those who are Christian in name only. These might be called the unbelieving "believers."

Two catagories of people are in this teaching:
1.) Regenerated (having received the new birth) believers in Christ, the genuine Christians.
2.) Unregenerated (not having ever received the new birth) self identifying (false) believers in Christ (who because of their actual UNBELIEF have never received Christ to be regenerated.

This is what Lee's paragraph says of BOTH categories or just ONE of the two categories ?

. These false Christians comprise the appearance of the kingdom which will be burned up at the Lord’s coming back.'

And this exactly agrees with what Jesus gave as an interpretation. Ghost wants to insert different words into the mouth of both Jesus Christ and a Christian teacher simply following Christ.

Can you see the dishonesty in Ghost's tactics ?

Ghost writes:

Therefore, from the two categories of Christians at the completion of the age, it is the 'false ones' who will have been condemned by Lee to Satanism.

He doesn't accuse them of Satanism.
He echoes Christ's teaching that the facade bearing nominal believers (who are unregenerated yet pretending believers) are burned up.

None of the regenerated and true believers in this parable of Matthew 13:24-30; 36-43 are condemned.
This does not mean that there is no discipline or reward or loss of reward to true regenerated Christians. It means that that aspect is not dealt with in THIS teaching.

There is no rule that all aspects of the kingdom of the heavens have to be taught in ONE parable teaching. Obviously, that Christ used SIX parables stating "The kingdom of the heavens has become" or "The kingdom of the heavens is like ..." indicates that OTHER aspects of the kingdom are to be taught.

The parable of the wheat and tares (24-30),
The parable of the mustard seed (31,32),
The parable of the women and the leavened meal (33)
The parable of the treasure hidden in the field (44),
The parable of the hidden pearl (45)
The parable of the dragnet and the good and bad fishes (47-30).

Ghost must want to establish some unwritten law that ALL aspects of the kingdom of the heavens MUST be covered in only ONE parable.

(And according to Revelations such followers are destined for hell). These Christians (helpfully identified by Lee as Protestants and Catholics) are an insult to God and will be 'burned up'.

Ghost's extrapolations are illogical, unbiblical, and feeble attempts at slander which implicate both Jesus Christ and a faithful teacher to the whole counsel of God.

The seven letters to the seven churches in Revelation 2 and 3 indicates that among churching people there are those who rise AT the expected standard - overcomers and by implication those who fall below, those defeated.

All of these are saved.
Some are saved and rewarded and some are saved and suffer loss.

See First Corinthians 3:14-15.

If anyone's work which he has built upon the foundation remains, he will receive a reward.
If anyone's work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (1 Cor. 3:14,15)

With some wild twisting Ghost hopes to change Witness Lee's faithful presentation of the New Testament to say that the defeated Christians are false Christians who will not be saved but condemned with unbelievers. They ALL are Satanists, is the slander Ghost longs to foist on to Witness Lee, and Paul, and Jesus Christ for that matter.

Since I pointed out that Watchman Nee and Witness Lee BOTH said the last four churches represent the situation of the church on the earth at the second coming (Thyatira - Catholicsm, Sardis - Protestantism, Philadelphia - the recovered church, and Laodicea - the fallen recovered church ALL apparently will produce OVERCOMERS per (Rev. 3:26; 3:3; 3:12; 3:21) Christ will reward some Christians in each condition of the church according to what He told them they must overcome.

There are always a remnant who are saved PLUS rewarded among the regenerated believers.
There are always a majority who are saved but suffer loss among the regenerated believers.

Lastly, Hebrews (like Daniel and the captured Israelite tribes) captured in Babylon were not necessarily Satanists.
Neither are those in corrupted Christianity which has been over influenced by Satan, Satanists or Satan worshippers who will be condemned for eternity along with Satan.

Lol

You can always tell how close the flame is to sonships nads by the length of his posts.

@sonship

Unfortunately your post was too long to read. Kindly condense into 100 words max if you would like a response.

Not that it matters. I have made clear from the outset that this thread is a exposé of Lee's work that hasn't been given to us through the selective prism of sonship.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Is it slander when you express your views on Darwin?

You appear to have accidentally overlooked this post sonship...

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Unfortunately your post was too long to read.

Then don't read them and continue thinking whatever you want.

In turn this post of YOURS I will deem "too long." So I will read nothing beyond this sentence in it.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

I asked you a series of questions about whether Jesus was a "wolf and sheep's clothing". I think we just got a "business as usual" ignoring of them. For once apply your standard of responsiveness to yourself.

FMF has doctrines. That's the end of that exchange for me.

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Unfortunately your post was too long to read.

Then don't read them and continue thinking whatever you want.

In turn this post of YOURS I will deem "too long." So I will read nothing beyond this sentence in it.

That comeback only really works if my post had been a long one (as opposed to just 52 words).

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

I asked you a series of questions about whether Jesus was a "wolf and sheep's clothing". I think we just got a "business as usual" ignoring of them. For once apply your standard of responsiveness to yourself.

FMF has doctrines. That's the end of that exchange for me.

No. I told you straight that I was not talking about Jesus. (At all). Just Witness Lee.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Works pretty good to me.

You don't bother to read carefully what I wrote as I read carefully your criticism with much consideration?

You don't do me the consideration, I no longer do so for you.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

No. I told you straight that I was not talking about Jesus. (At all). Just Witness Lee.

And you don't like that I show you that your problem is not with Witness Lee, but with Jesus.

Your entire thesis of Lee as a false witness and unfaithful to Christ's teaching - false New Testament teacher, collapses, Your argument and that of the Internet statements that you are leaning on for your support.

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Works pretty good to me.

You don't bother to read carefully what I wrote as I read carefully your criticism with much consideration?

You don't do me the consideration, I no longer do so for you.

The post/diatribe concerned was ridiculously long. Go back a page and have another look. It was closer to a novella than a reasonable reply in a forum.

But as I said, I have made clear from the outset that this thread is an exposé of Lee's work that hasn't been given to us through the selective prism of sonship. I'm fine if you drop out.

The real drop out is the one who won't read replies.
In other words you just wanted to hear yourself.

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

No. I told you straight that I was not talking about Jesus. (At all). Just Witness Lee.

And you don't like that I show you that your problem is not with Witness Lee, but with Jesus.

Your entire thesis of Lee as a false witness and unfaithful to Christ's teaching - false New Testament teacher, collapses, Your argument and that of the Internet statements that you are leaning on for your support.

Remind me where Jesus singled out Protestants and Catholics as being in an organization of Satan. Or was Lee alone in that?!

I think you are at your most woeful sonship when you try and twist criticism of yourself or Lee into a criticism of Jesus.