The Word of God

[ Just my personal opinion. Comments, or insults appreciated]

What is the Word of God. Apart from the references to the Word of God being Jesus Christ, what did Jesus mean when he said this:

And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God. (Luke 4:4 KJV)

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. (Matthew 4: 4 KJV)

The Bible is not the word of God. The word of God is contained in the bible and are all those parts of the bible which has either a direct record of what God said or retold by prophets. Eg

1. The commandments and Law of Moses. These are direct communication between God and man
2. The writings of the Prophets - again direct communication between God and man
3. The teachings of Jesus Christ. - goes without saying
4. Portions of Pauls letters [especially where Paul said he was told these things by Christ]
5. Revelation

Much of the rest of the bible is written by men inspired by God but their writings although in the bible, is not the word of God.

@rajk999 said
[ Just my personal opinion. Comments, or insults appreciated]

What is the Word of God. Apart from the references to the Word of God being Jesus Christ, what did Jesus mean when he said this:

[i]And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God. (Luke 4:4 KJV)

But he answered and said, It is written, Man sh ...[text shortened]... is written by men inspired by God but their writings although in the bible, is not the word of God.

Maybe, to some of your points.

But also all the words that have proceeded from the mouth of God since the bible has been written.

Unless there those here who feel that God has not spoken new words since the bible was written and compiled... ???

@divegeester said
Maybe, to some of your points.

But also all the words that have proceeded from the mouth of God since the bible has been written.

Unless there those here who feel that God has not spoken new words since the bible was written and compiled... ???

I think we agree. All the words spoken by God are relevant to man's survival and destiny. For me these would include
- all the words which are not written in the bible but written elsewhere
- all the words since the bible was written.

Communication with man is a constant thing in my opinion. Although we are not privy to all of this information. Eg, at the birth of Christ, these wise men from the east must have been in communication with God to know what is going on and how to get to the place of the birth of Christ. And the Jews did not have a clue what was going on.

It is my belief that God communicates will all nations and tribes and groups all over the world, throughout history. Christians are mistaken if they think they are unique.

@Rajk999

4. Portions of Pauls letters [especially where Paul said he was told these things by Christ]

In another thread you just quoted the Apostle Paul in Romans 2:13

: (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. (Romans 2:13 KJV)

This you point to as the authoritative oracles of God.
Without an ad hom or waving hands about Witness Lee or pronouncing divine judgment upon this poster can you explain:

Is the entirety of chapters 3 and 4 authoritatively God's speaking? I mean as we go on to read into chapter 4 does the writing cease to be the authoritative word of God ?

Does this authoritative speaking STOP before 5:20 which says -

"Because out of the works of the law no flesh shall be justified before Him ..."?

If yes which is the last word of God's speaking between 3:1 and 4:20?

@sonship said
@Rajk999

4. Portions of Pauls letters [especially where Paul said he was told these things by Christ]

In another thread you just quoted the Apostle Paul in Romans 2:13

: (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. (Romans 2:13 KJV)

This you point to as the authoritativ ...[text shortened]... Him ..."[/b]?

If yes which is the last word of God's speaking between 3:1 and 4:20?

This is an example of why the teachings of Christ are far more authoritative than any other doctrine in the bible. You believe that Christ is God in the flesh? Then Christ = God. Therefore God / Christ > Paul.

So you are demonstrating that Pauls teachings have some passages which appear to contradict each other:

(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. (Romans 2:13 KJV)

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. (Romans 3:20 KJV)

For people who are lack the ability to interpret the bible, my suggestion is to revert to the teachings of Christ which contain no such contradiction. Jesus said to do good works and live righteously and you will get eternal life. God justifies the righteous. End of story, nothing can contradict that, not even Paul.

Paul because of his human failings makes these kinds of contradictory statements which confuses the reader. However if you read further than Romans 4, you will eventually see that Paul [as did all the Apostles], state clearly that even though a Christian is justified by grace through faith and not by works, there is still NO INHERITANCE IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD WITHOUT GOOD WORKS AND RIGHTEOUSNESS. So let the reader decide. Take what Jesus said. OR Take a one line from Paul and run with that.

Me ? Im going with Christ.

From the other letters of Paul to the churches, this point is clearer. That is that faith saves the believer. Paul calls this saved by faith and not by works. But this saving is NOT ETERNAL LIFE. Faith alone saves nobody as James points out. Faith alone is DEAD. Faith + Works is Living Faith and leads to eternal life. So the reader should be wary of taking pieces of Pauls writings and ignoring the rest.

@Rajk999

This is an example of why the teachings of Christ are far more authoritative than any other doctrine in the bible. You believe that Christ is God in the flesh? Then Christ = God. Therefore God / Christ > Paul.

No answer so far on where is the boundary delineating the God's word stops after Romans 2:13.

Did Paul give you any reason to think he as as great or greater that Christ / God?

So you are demonstrating that Pauls teachings have some passages which appear to contradict each other:

(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. (Romans 2:13 KJV)

They do not contradict.
He says doers of the law shall be justified in principle. Then latter he says no one will be so justified for all have fallen short.

And in doing this he quotes the prophet of the OT.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. (Romans 3:20 KJV)

This is his conclusion after he has quoted the OT in Psalms and Isaiah that there is none righteous in this regard, not even one. See Romans 3:9 - 19 is a quotation of Psalms 14:1-3; 53:1-3; 5:9; 140:3; 10:7; Isaiah 59:7-8; and Psa. 36:1

I got this information in the sidebar of the Recovery Version New Testament for Romans chapter 3. You should get a Recovery Version to help you. Though you could probably find the same references in a good KJV sidebar.

After quoting the Psalms and Isaiah that all have fallen short of being seekers of God and righteous according to God's standard of righteousness, Paul says in 3:20

"Because out of the works of the law no flesh shall be justified before Him; for through the law is the clear knowledge of sin."

For people who are lack the ability to interpret the bible, my suggestion is to revert to the teachings of Christ which contain no such contradiction. Jesus said to do good works and live righteously and you will get eternal life. God justifies the righteous. End of story, nothing can contradict that, not even Paul.

So you recommend Romans 3:13 but Paul stops speaking the oracles of God at 3:20 ?

Or is it that you just like what Romans 3:20 says?

Paul because of his human failings makes these kinds of contradictory statements which confuses the reader.

God wants to work Himself into man, including the expression of his human sentiments. That is the principle of incarnation.

The OT prophets said "Thus says Jehovah" more like a tape recorder.
The NT apostles and prophets have God wrought into their humanity so that even when they express human sentiments they can be saturated with the fragrance and aroma of God himself.

You don't understand God's purpose in the new covenant to work Himself into man for a mingling and interwoven life.

However if you read further than Romans 4, you will eventually see that Paul [as did all the Apostles], state clearly that even though a Christian is justified by grace through faith and not by works, there is still NO INHERITANCE IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD WITHOUT GOOD WORKS AND RIGHTEOUSNESS.

I have never disputed that Paul speaks of this.
You bear false witness to claim that I ever taught Paul did not teach righteous living.

He said he did not nullify the indwelling grace of God which was Christ living in Him.

" . . . but it is Christ who lives in me; and the life which I live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith of the Son of God Who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness is through the law, then Christ has died in vain." (Gal. 2:20b,21)

He lives righteously by not nullifying the indwelling Christ who lives in Him. This indwelling Person living a mingled life with Paul is the grace of God. Paul utilizes this grace to the fullest extent. He "exploits" its power, effectiveness, and efficiency. He makes certain that this grace is not under utilized but experienced by him in the fullest.

" It is Christ who lives in me . . . I do not nullify the grace of God."

So let the reader decide. Take what Jesus said. OR Take a one line from Paul and run with that.

So explain why Romans 3:13 is God's word but by the time of 3:20 we should no longer regard this as God's word.

Me ? Im going with Christ.

Jesus taught the same thing as Paul BEFORE Paul in the gospel of John.

"I am the true vine . . . Abide in me and I in you . . . I am the vine; you are the branches. He who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit;

for apart from me you can do nothing." (See all of John 15).

Latter when in verse 10 Jesus speaks of keeping His commandments it is clear that the only way to do that is to abide in Him and He in us an organic relationship. That is a life union of a branch grafted into a vine. The life of the vine, the true vine, can then flow into the abiding branch.

"If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; even as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love." (v.10)

From the other letters of Paul to the churches, this point is clearer. That is that faith saves the believer. Paul calls this saved by faith and not by works. But this saving is NOT ETERNAL LIFE. Faith alone saves nobody as James points out. Faith alone is DEAD. Faith + Works is Living Faith and leads to eternal life. So the reader should be wary of taking pieces of Pauls writings and ignoring the rest.

Actually, the NT teaching is salvation in three main aspects:
1.) I was saved
2.) I am being saved
3.) I will be saved

As to eternal life and eternal redemption I was regenerated and saved.
As to being sanctified and conformed to Christ I am under the process of being saved.
As to the transfiguration of my body I am living unto salvation to be revealed.

Your criticism of the Apostle Paul is actually a rejection of the Gospel Jesus preached about Himself being the True Vine a man must be joined to in life and abide in as He mutually abides in that one.

@sonship said

Your criticism of the Apostle Paul is actually a rejection of the Gospel Jesus preached about Himself being the True Vine a man must be joined to in life and abide in as He mutually abides in that one.

A load of baloney. You are tying yourself into knots and anyone that tries to read that thinking that it is an explanation of why Paul wrote conflicting passages, will be no better off after reading all that fluff.

It is much better to read the Jesus's Sermon on the Mount in Matt 5 to 7 and passages like in Matt 25 about the good works that is required for eternal life in the Kingdom of God. Why ?
- these passages come directly from the mouth of God
- there are no conflicting passages
- there is nothing to explain
- it a guarantee of eternal life

I bet the Good Samaritan would laugh at your explanation and the priest, Levite, and the rich man, are in hell wondering what utter garbage you are trying to preach to people.

This is why you have no credibility : You said that Paul said

...doers of the law shall be justified in principle.

IN PRINCIPLE ??? Why do you keep adding to the bible ? Disgusting habit

I always understood that Jesus was The Word

From NIV ( I don't like this translation but it will do )

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (* some translations differ to "a god" or "godlike" or "divine" ). 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.


* My insertion

@medullah

I always understood that Jesus was The Word

Yes, and the Word went through a becomming - "And the Word became flesh ..." (John 1:14) . The Word Who was God Himself, became flesh. God became a man.

The Word Who is God Himself became a man and dwelt among the rest of us human beings.

"And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us" (John 1:14 RcV). Or if we consult the NIV -

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.

Then the Word who became incarnated as a man went through another becoming. This time to not only be among us but to provide a way to be IN us, if we receive Him. He became a "life giving Spirit".

"[T]he last Adam became a life giving Spirit" ( 1 Cor. 15:45b)

Can you see then the steps God took in order to impart God INTO us?

1.) The Word Who was God from eternity "became flesh" (John 1:1,14) to makes His dwelling among us.

2.) The Word having become a man among us became a divine life imparting Spirit to give Himself as eternal life to us.

"[T]he last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45b)

These two vital steps show how God came forward from eternity into time to dwell among us and further, to make His dwelling WITHIN us (if we would believe in Him and receive Him).

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (* some translations differ to "a god" or "godlike" or "divine" ). 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

In Him was the divine life as He dwelt among us, tabernacled among us.
And divine life is still in Him as He transfigured Himself into a life imparting, life dispensing Spirit to put God Himself into us.

"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the authority to become children of God, to those who believe into His name, who were BEGOTTEN [or BORN] . . . of God." (See John 1:12,13)

For emphasis I omitted some of the important words in those two verses.

@medullah said
I always understood that Jesus was The Word

From NIV ( I don't like this translation but it will do )

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (* some translations differ to "a god" or "godlike" or "divine" ). 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has ...[text shortened]... nkind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.


* My insertion

In biblical jargon, the 'Word' is Jesus Christ. The 'word' is the writings of inspired men, what we call the Bible. The writings of inspired men come in 2 types : the writings which are directly from God and writings which are not. Much of David and Solomons writings and some of Pauls letters are not directly from God.

What Rajk999 is really saying is that he comes to the bible with his opinion.
What agrees with his selective opinion he will designate as the word of God.

Ie ."God of course speaks in a way that establishes the correctness of my opinion."

He will demote whatever in the Bible that he thinks doesn't establish his opinion.
Rajk999's self chosen opinion is held higher then the words of the bible whose only function is to add dignity to his religious opinion about how to serve God.

Mind you all the while a relationship between people in God, he says, is nowhere to be found in the Bible.

@sonship said
What Rajk999 is really saying is that he comes to the bible with his opinion.
What agrees with his selective opinion he will designate as the word of God.

Ie ."God of course speaks in a way that establishes the correctness of my opinion."

He will demote whatever in the Bible that he thinks doesn't establish his opinion.
Rajk999's self chosen opinion is held higher t ...[text shortened]... ou all the while a relationship between people in God, he says, is nowhere to be found in the Bible.

Sonship is a kind of moron, so allow me to interpret

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What Rajk999 is really saying is that he comes to the bible with his opinion the the words of Jesus Christ supersedes all other teachings. What agrees with the teachings of Christ, he will designate as the word of God.

Ie ."God of course speaks in a way that establishes the correctness of the teachings of Christ "

He will demote whatever in the Bible that he thinks doesn't agree with Christ, because he claims that the words of Christ are to be held higher than the words of anyone else in the bible. Jesus is the sole authority on how to serve God. What nonsense he believes.

A relationship between people and God, he says, is nowhere to be found in the Bible, but he claims that people can become SONS OF GOD through obedience to the commandments of Christ. Calling 'Lord Lord' a zillion times only establishes one as hypocritical mouthworshipper, fit to be burned, but do who keep the commandments will see eternal life. Rajk999 is crazy and I dont know where he gets these insane notions about righteousness and good works.

*********************************************

@Rajk999

A relationship between people and God, he says, is nowhere to be found in the Bible, but he claims that people can become SONS OF GOD through obedience to the commandments of Christ. Calling 'Lord Lord' a zillion times only establishes one as hypocritical mouthworshipper, fit to be burned, but do who keep the commandments will see eternal life. Rajk999 is crazy and I dont know where he gets these insane notions about righteousness and good works.

"But as many as received Him . . . "

One way to receive the resurrected and available Jesus is to use your mouth to ask Him to come into your heart. The heart in the Bible is the emotion, the mind, the will, plus the conscience.

"As many as received Him, to them He gave the authority to become children of God."

Confessing with the mouth and receiving Jesus into the heart is way to obtain authority from God the Father to become someone with a life union relationship with God. This is not only having God as your Creator. It is having authority to be born of Him and become a child with a living connection.

"As many as received Him, to them He gave the authority to become children of God, to those who believe into His name, . . ."

Here receiving Jesus is believing into His name. That is believing He is raised and can indeed be know today, now, as your Lord and Savior.

"As many as received Him, to them He gave authority to become children of God, who believe into His name,

Who were BEGOTTEN not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

The authority to become one of God's children (not just God's created creature) comes from a BIRTH deep within the human's spiritual being. The heart is opened and the Spirit of Christ enters into the innermost spiritual being. One is BORN of the divine Father.

It does not say that the birth is an end in itself.
It does not say no obedience to God is required.
It does say that it is the receiving of the available Jesus Christ in His state of resurrection one becomes a child of God by being BEGOTTEN so - BORN from God so.