1. SubscriberPianoman1
    Nil desperandum
    Seedy piano bar
    Joined
    09 May '08
    Moves
    184487
    27 Nov '13 06:27
    Gregory S. Paul, in the Journal of Religion and Society systematically compared seventeen economically developed nations, and reached the devastating conclusion that 'higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator' correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early mortality, STD infection rates, teen preganancy and abortion in the prosperous societies.

    Coincidence?
  2. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    27 Nov '13 06:36
    Originally posted by Pianoman1
    Gregory S. Paul, in the Journal of Religion and Society systematically compared seventeen economically developed nations, and reached the devastating conclusion that 'higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator' correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early mortality, STD infection rates, teen preganancy and abortion in the prosperous societies.

    Coincidence?
    The link to STD infection rates, teen pregnancy and abortion may be due to a combination of the Catholics policy against condoms, the stigma against teen sex and poorer sex education.
    The higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early mortality would need further study, but it must be remembered that there is a correlation between teen pregnancy and crime later on (by the children brought up by single teen mothers).
  3. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    27 Nov '13 06:38
    There may also be a negative correlation between 'rates of belief in and worship of a creator' and income equality. I believe the more socialist wealthy countries are less religious - but I am not claiming that there is a causal relationship in either direction.
  4. Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    86400
    27 Nov '13 07:13
    Yes, and there will likely be a strong correlation between global banking fraud and atheism.
  5. Joined
    04 Feb '05
    Moves
    29132
    27 Nov '13 09:09
    Originally posted by Pianoman1
    Gregory S. Paul, in the Journal of Religion and Society systematically compared seventeen economically developed nations, and reached the devastating conclusion that 'higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator' correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early mortality, STD infection rates, teen preganancy and abortion in the prosperous societies.

    Coincidence?
    higher than what? a norm? 1% higher belief means 1% higher bad things, or 50%? what are the seventeen economically developed nations? are you comparing the us with luxembourg or malta? how is early mortality related to religion?


    dude, post the link, we can't discuss this with so little information.
  6. SubscriberPianoman1
    Nil desperandum
    Seedy piano bar
    Joined
    09 May '08
    Moves
    184487
    27 Nov '13 09:241 edit
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    higher than what? a norm? 1% higher belief means 1% higher bad things, or 50%? what are the seventeen economically developed nations? are you comparing the us with luxembourg or malta? how is early mortality related to religion?


    dude, post the link, we can't discuss this with so little information.
    dude, post the link, we can't discuss this with so little information.


    http://moses.creighton.edu/jrs/2005/2005-11.pdf

    edit: I am not a "dude" (as far as I know)
  7. Joined
    04 Feb '05
    Moves
    29132
    27 Nov '13 09:50
    Originally posted by Pianoman1
    dude, post the link, we can't discuss this with so little information.


    http://moses.creighton.edu/jrs/2005/2005-11.pdf

    edit: I am not a "dude" (as far as I know)
    i call everyone "dude", i am in the dude phase. next phase will be "grand poobah". stay tuned for that.
  8. Joined
    11 Oct '04
    Moves
    5232
    27 Nov '13 10:233 edits
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Yes, and there will likely be a strong correlation between global banking fraud and atheism.
    Although having a methodist minister as Chairman of a bank didn't work out that well either....

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/524357/20131122/co-op-paul-flowers-drug-scandal-crystal.htm

    For those not familiar with this story, this is the tale of a methodist minister with no banking experience, who had been convicted of gross indecency in the 80's, sacked from his job with a council for looking at porn on office computers, and using work computers to arrange drugs parties with rent boys.

    So, what was the response to this? Did people arrange counselling to help him deal with his various addictions etc.

    No, we made him Chairman of a major UK bank.

    2 years after the banking crisis hit.

    Which then made a disastrous acquisition which will result in an urgent refinancing, with the hedge funds calling the shots.

    You couldn't make this stuff up.
  9. SubscriberSuzianne
    Misfit Queen
    Isle of Misfit Toys
    Joined
    08 Aug '03
    Moves
    35531
    27 Nov '13 14:39
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    The link to STD infection rates, teen pregnancy and abortion may be due to a combination of the Catholics policy against condoms, the stigma against teen sex and poorer sex education.
    The higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early mortality would need further study, but it must be remembered that there is a correlation between teen pregnancy and crime later on (by the children brought up by single teen mothers).
    Agreed. Good post.
  10. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    27 Nov '13 15:52
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Agreed. Good post.
    Thank you.

    I think I should add that higher STD infection rates, teen pregnancy and abortion rates do not necessarily mean more teens are having sex, merely that they are making more mistakes when doing so.
  11. Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    86400
    28 Nov '13 18:121 edit
    Originally posted by Rank outsider
    Although having a methodist minister as Chairman of a bank didn't work out that well either....

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/524357/20131122/co-op-paul-flowers-drug-scandal-crystal.htm

    For those not familiar with this story, this is the tale of a methodist minister with no banking experience, who had been convicted of gross indecency in the ...[text shortened]... urgent refinancing, with the hedge funds calling the shots.

    You couldn't make this stuff up.
    Oh yes, let's find the one example of a church minister leading a bank to completely prove that the ridiculous OP premise is correct and that the global financial crisis of the last 6 years is in fact the fault of the Methodists.
  12. Joined
    11 Oct '04
    Moves
    5232
    28 Nov '13 19:30
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Oh yes, let's find the one example of a church minister leading a bank to completely prove that the ridiculous OP premise is correct and that the global financial crisis of the last 6 years is in fact the fault of the Methodists.
    Mmm, not sure I quite said that.

    And I was agreeing with you.
  13. SubscriberSuzianne
    Misfit Queen
    Isle of Misfit Toys
    Joined
    08 Aug '03
    Moves
    35531
    28 Nov '13 19:54
    Originally posted by Pianoman1
    Gregory S. Paul, in the Journal of Religion and Society systematically compared seventeen economically developed nations, and reached the devastating conclusion that 'higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator' correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early mortality, STD infection rates, teen preganancy and abortion in the prosperous societies.

    Coincidence?
    No 'coincidence'. I'm guessing he has a hidden (or not-so-hidden) agenda. That conclusion does not necessarily follow from the data. As a nation, America did not see these higher rates until there was a general 'falling away' from the church, as there has been these last 50 years (or so).
  14. Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    86400
    29 Nov '13 10:58
    Originally posted by Rank outsider
    Mmm, not sure I quite said that.

    And I was agreeing with you.
    How were you agreeing with me?
  15. Joined
    11 Oct '04
    Moves
    5232
    29 Nov '13 11:542 edits
    Originally posted by divegeester
    How were you agreeing with me?
    Well, I assumed your point was that there could be a correlation between the global banking crisis and atheism, but that would not mean that there was a causal link.

    I simply pointed out that, even if more religious faith had been present in banks (thereby reducing the atheistic correlation) this would not necessarily have prevented the banking crisis.

    Obviously my example lends no support to this one way or another, but I actually believe religious faith or the absence of it would have made little or no difference to the crisis, as other factors were at play which were more important.

    So, similarly, I would not accept the supposed 'devastating conclusion' (which I think you and I believe was implied) that religious faith necessarily causes greater rates of homicide etc, without considering a whole host of other factors that might be at play.

    Of course, if you were saying that atheism did indeed cause the banking crisis, then I have misunderstood the point you were making.
Back to Top